Did this episode prove Charlie's death pointless?

[AngeloShrine]

The whole reason Charlie agreed to die was to make sure Desmond's vision of Claire and Aaron getting on the helicopter would come true.

Well, it didn't come true at all.

So was Desmond lying? Or did the writers not have that bit of the story thought out yet? Or was Desmond's premonition simply wrong? Discuss!

[explodingplant]

it seems like desmond's future plotline was abandoned worse than nikki and paolo. at least they got an episode to scrap it (well, constant might have scrapped future future seeing).

but yeah. what's up with the vision not coming true. and what's up with no death scene for claire? just weird mysteriousness. i hope claire is explained soon.

it's not like desmond could have seen WAY future claire and baby getting on a helicopter. 1) that's not consistent with his visions for being so far ahead 2) aaron wouldn't be a baby.

[AngeloShrine]

Good point about, if the vision is still to come in the future, Aaron won't be a baby anymore.

I think it's black and white here. Either 1) Desmond was lying for some reason, or 2) the writers hadn't ironed out Clarie's S4 storyline yet when they had Charlie sacrifice his freaking life for her.

[ElessarUSMC]

Both are depressing

I'm hoping for a big "Holy crap" in season 5 or 6 when his vision seems to come true in some strangely convoluted way that nobody could possibly predict at this point.

Yet, with this whole overriding philosophy of "we can't leave the island, we have to go back to the island, we were destined to stay on the island", I don't see how that's likely.

Really sucks too because there was SO much buildup to that. "Oh, sorry guys, we're doin something else now."

Maybe they don't think people will mind because Charlie's showing up everywhere?

[bigstick61]

It is also possible that something Desmond or Charlie did changed the future, much in the way Desmond changed some of the things he saw, such as Charlie's death in the jungle due to Rousseau's booby trap. Charlie's death didn't quite happen exactly like Desmond pictured it ( he would have seen what Charlie wrote on his hand) and was not necesary (he had ample time to escape). Perhaps Charlie's death is what made it so that Claire didn't end up where she was foreseen to be. If he had lived, she might not have gone with Locke, unless Charlie would have (it is possible), or at the least Charlie would have been alert regarding her safety and would not have just let her run off and leave Aaron on the way ack from the Barracks.

[luanee]

Charlie's death happened in order to stop the jamming so that the island could be located and the people rescued. Even if Claire and Aaron didnt get on the helicopter as in Desmond's vision, Charlie's death is still not pointless.

[AngeloShrine]

Originally Posted by luanee

Charlie's death happened in order to stop the jamming so that the island could be located and the people rescued. Even if Claire and Aaron didnt get on the helicopter as in Desmond's vision, Charlie's death is still not pointless.

Wrong, Charley went down into the station "in order to stop the jamming so that the island could be located...." But once he pushed the button, and saw Mikhail outside, he made the conscious decision to shut the door, and to die.

[JediXPhile]

I think the BEST answer I can give you is this



"Not Penny's Boat"

[explodingplant]

yeah, we can argue that charlie's death had a point. but i think the real issue should be the cause behind his death. this episode confirmed that desmond's vision is not going to happen (99%ly bc nothing is 100% with lost).

[Markula]

I'm thinking that Desmond actually saw himself getting rescued. He looked surprised to see Penny, but there is only "flashes". He could've seen himself on the raft.

Or he could've simply made out Aaron with Kate on the heli, and assumed that it was Claire holding Aaron.

Either way I get the feeling he lied, or got mislead.

Still, Charlie's death was still pointless in a sense. If it was really a rescue that ended with "And they lived happily ever after.." it would have a great point.

But he died so that the Freighter folk would come and MORE people would die, and that six people would get off, but then told to come back.

Charlie died thinking something very different was to happen because of it. :/

[dr jones]

charlie DID have meaning. here it is:

charlie made the phone call to penny. thus, penny was able to track the island and rescue the oceanic 6 with her boat.

desmund asked her: "how did you find me?"

she said "the phone call. i have a tracking station"


so if charlie had never talked to penny on that phone then the oceanic 6 would never have been rescued and they would have eventually died in that raft on the ocean.

[xxGoneforeverxx]

In a sence, no, Charlie's death wasn't pointless.

He might not have saved Claire and Aaron but at least he saved Aaron. I guess thats a possitive. Without Charlie and his sacrifice, the Oceanic Six, Frank and Des would have just died out there.

[Erstwhile Lurker]

i think the easy way around Desmond's vision coming true is that a woman got on the helicopter holding a baby - Desmond assumed the woman was the baby's mother and therefore thought it was claire - as we know though the baby was aaron but the woman was not Claire. i realize that desmond knows what claire looks like but we don't know how 'clear' his visions were.......

[princessgina]

She wasn't referring to Charlie's call; she meant Desmond's call to her in "The Constant."I don't think Charlie even actually called her; he just punched in the code that unblocked the jamming signal; which connected him to the communications center on the Freighter. That's where Pennie was calling; I believe Minkowski later made reference to her calls when Desmond finally made it onto the freighter in Season 4.

[xxGoneforeverxx]

^^ Ahh, yeah. True. The woman could have so easily have been Kate - I mean they're built the same, Claire and Kate, they just have different coloured hair.