Choosing Sides

[brandita]

It seems as if Sayid has joined Flocke and company. I guess his nature is always to resort to his old ways in the end. The flashsideways shows that I guess. Has Kate joined them as well? It seems as if she is just going along for now. What happened to Claire being made at her anyways? Does FLocke need all of the losties to leave maybe?

[pitu_815]

As for Sayid, I don't think it has always been in his nature, I just think that the illness or whatever it's called has posesed him and, as he stated, it's too late for him now.

Regarding Kate, I don't think she will stay in this group for much. But we'll have to wait.

[Sallyquilt]

Think Kate stayed with these folks by accident as she went back to save Claire and didnt realize Claire was mentally gone. Kate should have paid a little bit more attention. Now she is in the wrong place. Even Flocke was surprised to see her.

[tokabol23]

This episode is a pretty big turning point. Everyone is finally on the same page for once. And it's black vs white (backgammon ref.) now. I'm so excited for the last 10 episodes!

[Donder]

Kate is really interesting in this. She has no idea Claire is crazy and with Flocke. She jumped in the hole because it was that or get killed by Smokey. I don't think she choose that side, she just kind of fell into it. Flocke looked surprised to see her come out of the temple.

In addition to all that I could definitely see Claire kill her. Kate has finally become an interesting character! ;)

[debrahky]

I got hope that none of the Losties go with the evil. Please oh please I hope they end up on the right side. Hope,Hope,HOPE!!!!:o:o:o

[Sallyquilt]

Wonder what Flocke has Sawyer doing while all this was going on? Flocke always hits folks at their weakest moment and promises the one thing that will turn them into his follower. Wish Sayid had seen through that or , just maybe, he's going to surprize us and end up helping the good guys in the final battle.

[jlist]

This episode is a pretty big turning point. Everyone is finally on the same page for once. And it's black vs white (backgammon ref.) now. I'm so excited for the last 10 episodes!

In line with the whole light and dark theme I noitced tonight that both Kate and Miles had gray shirts on...could this signify that neither has chosen a side. Just a thought.

[DidntSeThatComin]

In line with the whole light and dark theme I noitced tonight that both Kate and Miles had gray shirts on...could this signify that neither has chosen a side. Just a thought.

That is an interesting point.. both just happened to end up with who they are with. Miles had no intention of joining Ilana and et al.. and Kate likewise had no intention of joining Flocke and et al

[Newlyfound]

I was thinking about Kate's gray shirt the other week. I think she's not good or evil. I think she will try play peace maker.

I didn't think about Miles. DidntSeThatComin, good point. Circumstances put them with that group. There wasn't a choice.

[sigfrik]

Sayid is a killer and a torturer, evil side in his soul has been there his whole life - hey, I love him not bashing please I love him - and for Kate, excuse me :rotflol: like the 20 last minutes of her life have been just as if being in the middle of an Indiana Jones movie, but having missed the beginning, she met Sayid, ¿? wasn't he badly wounded? what's he doing wandering so happily through the jungle?
Jack and Hugo have left, Jacob? who the hell is that? Miles mentions him, she never heard.
Claire is in a creepy hole. Mmmmm ... ah yes, a big fast scary doomy cloud of smoke flies over her head, everyone's dead, crosses burning, Sayid and Claire seem to be by the side of....... SOMEONE LOOKING LIKE JOHN LOCKE???
If I were her, I would keep my mouth shut, do as I am told to, follow them. Till a moment come when I was about to decide either to join, escape, or surrender to be killed ...

[UnluckyNumbers]

I would actually like to see clear evidence that one side is actually worse than the other!

The Man In Black was clearly an aggressor tonight but that doesn't automatically make him evil. Granted he manipulated Sayid to do his bidding but its very telling that Dogan's story about Jacob's offer was nearly a mirror image. Both used manipulation to advance their pawns in the game. And another point is that MiB could of slaughtered everyone in the Temple when Dogan died. Instead he sent a warning and spared those that left. In other words he only really killed his self-proclaimed enemies. And its true that MiB has a murderer like Sayid on his side...and Jacob had his Ben.

Don't get me wrong...the MiB is NOT a nice man. But then the same can be said of Jacob who hasn't proved that he is any better, despite what I think is an assumption on fan's parts because he 'seems' nice. They are both intensely grey.

[sigfrik]

I am on MIB side, and I am on John Locke's side, so clearly some of us do not buy that one is evil, one is good, cos to the losties, the others were the bad guys, to the others, themselves where the good ones, now some of both sides are divided, some are back to back.
Gray position is mine. MIB is no evil. Just defending his interests, dealing with people, Jacob deal with them too,.

[froody]

Ben acted of his own accord. Jacob is to let people on the island get on with things. He never really liked ben I don't believe, and even think that Ben's strong manipulation tactics unpleasantly reminds Jacob of MIB. That's why he withdrew his healing presence from Ben's life. Ben got cancer. Now Jacob didn't give this to him-he heals not hurts, he just decided that ben was not someone he wanted to ensure the protection of anymore, and without this it was a part of ben's life to get cancer.
It's also why Jacob said 'what about you' at the end of the incident. Again ben showing his selfish side just like MIB. I guess Jacob kind of sighs when he sees men show this side of themselves. Even so, he still gave ben a chance to redeem himself and walk away, ben never took it. Ben was not Jacob's soldier. Dogan was, Richard is.

[Sarah O]

Ben acted of his own accord. Jacob is to let people on the island get on with things. He never really liked ben I don't believe, and even think that Ben's strong manipulation tactics unpleasantly reminds Jacob of MIB. That's why he withdrew his healing presence from Ben's life. Ben got cancer. Now Jacob didn't give this to him-he heals not hurts, he just decided that ben was not someone he wanted to ensure the protection of anymore, and without this it was a part of ben's life to get cancer.
It's also why Jacob said 'what about you' at the end of the incident. Again ben showing his selfish side just like MIB. I guess Jacob kind of sighs when he sees men show this side of themselves. Even so, he still gave ben a chance to redeem himself and walk away, ben never took it. Ben was not Jacob's soldier. Dogan was, Richard is.

There's something that has been bothering me about Jacob and him "healing" Ben when Ben was a kid. I might've missed or forgotten something, so if I have, please correct me. But, why did Ben "lose his innocence" and "couldn't be part of the Dharma anymore" after being healed by Jacob? So in a way, has the healing-lake always been somewhat quoestionable, even before Jacob died? And if we continue this train of thought it really is Jacob's fault that Ben became what he is, because Jacob's healing took his innocence. Jacob made Ben evil, like MiB makes those who he claims.

To me, both MiB and Jacob seem more or less evil. Or not necessarily evil, but I think neither of them is pure good. MiB kills and corrupts but Jacob has ruined many lives as well. And they sort of strike the same bargains, MiB asking Sayid what he would do if he could have what he wanted (Nadia or alternatively Shannon back) and Jacob told Dogen that in exchange for his son's life he would have to come to the island and couldn't even see his son ever again. Plus, I'm somewhat convinced that like MiB, Jacob isn't the man whose form he has taken, he must be able to take other forms as well, or even turn into Smokie 2. Which means he could be responsible for some of the deaths we now blame MiB for.

[papasan]

Just a few thoughts. Even though Ben did get cancer, he was healed by Jack, who was brought to the island by Jacob. What was the reason Ben got cancer? Was it punishment for something? If so, why bring Jack to cure him?

How did Locke's dad, and Sawyer's nemesis, get on the island? Ben said they just found him there and he ordered Locke to kill him. Sawyer did the killing but whoever brought the old man to the island certainly knew he was to be killed. Or was he simply an incarnation of Smokie testing Sawyer for later use?

Richard had said that leaders are chosen at a very young age (could be why the Others are interested in children). When Locke became leader Richard went back in time to when Locke was a little boy and tested him. Yet, Locke didn't know anything and didn't recognize the compass. How was Locke chosen and why him? He was not a child.

The Ajira flight...Jack, Sayid, Kate and Hurley end up in 1977. Sun ends up in 2007 with Ben and Lapedis. Why? Was Jacob protecting her? What are the other Ajira passengers, on the smaller island, doing during this time?

Finally, Kate is not "with" Flocke. She seemed to just go along with the crowd, she didn't have the zombie look in her eyes and Flocke looked surprised and a little disgusted when he saw her. Does she know Locke is dead (I thought she knew) and this isn't Locke? She doesn't seem to know Claire and Sayid are "infected". It will be interesting when she meets up with Sawyer and Jin in Flocke's army.

[froody]

[QUOTE=Sarah O;270111162]There's something that has been bothering me about Jacob and him "healing" Ben when Ben was a kid. I might've missed or forgotten something, so if I have, please correct me. But, why did Ben "lose his innocence" and "couldn't be part of the Dharma anymore" after being healed by Jacob? So in a way, has the healing-lake always been somewhat quoestionable, even before Jacob died? And if we continue this train of thought it really is Jacob's fault that Ben became what he is, because Jacob's healing took his innocence. Jacob made Ben evil, like MiB makes those who he claims.
[QUOTE]

I wonder about the lost innocence line as well, but am sure that jacob had no part in healing ben. Richard took him to the spring and had him put in the water, later saying that jacob wanted it done just to shut whidmore up. Considering Jacob has never come to ben I don't see him as someone Jacob ever thought of as a help, more of a hindrance. Richard just went a little soft and couldn't let a boy die, plus he remembered seeing him near the dharma village previously.

[kidd]

I would actually like to see clear evidence that one side is actually worse than the other!

The Man In Black was clearly an aggressor tonight but that doesn't automatically make him evil. Granted he manipulated Sayid to do his bidding but its very telling that Dogan's story about Jacob's offer was nearly a mirror image. Both used manipulation to advance their pawns in the game. And another point is that MiB could of slaughtered everyone in the Temple when Dogan died. Instead he sent a warning and spared those that left. In other words he only really killed his self-proclaimed enemies. And its true that MiB has a murderer like Sayid on his side...and Jacob had his Ben.

Don't get me wrong...the MiB is NOT a nice man. But then the same can be said of Jacob who hasn't proved that he is any better, despite what I think is an assumption on fan's parts because he 'seems' nice. They are both intensely grey.


As was said somewhere else Jacob doesn't care about collateral damage. He wants what he wants and he'll go to whatever means to get it. It seems that when something is pointed out that people feel Jacob has done bad things it's immediately said that it must be MIB doing it. I don't believe that's true. Jacob has his own agenda as does MIB. They are both in a gray area.

[ajessica]

As was said somewhere else Jacob doesn't care about collateral damage. He wants what he wants and he'll go to whatever means to get it. It seems that when something is pointed out that people feel Jacob has done bad things it's immediately said that it must be MIB doing it. I don't believe that's true. Jacob has his own agenda as does MIB. They are both in a gray area.


that is what it looks like but the "theme" of the show clearly says that they are two sides/players ; one is dark, one is light. So they can't be grey, know what I mean?
I don't think they had Locke said that in season 1 for nothing or Dogen recently for nothing or the stones that Adam and Eve had on them for nothing and Claire's dream, it doesn't make sense


On Kate I don't think she is on MIB side she just tagged along because everybody at the temple is dead and I don't think she is gonna leave Claire as her mission is to get her back to Aaron. And James isn't claimed so she 'll try to get him to go with her as well as Jin

[sigfrik]

I thing we guys are missing a tiny, important detail.
In my humble opinion, the healing for Ben didn't mean any kind of hazard to him, infection, putting him in a position of being claimed ¨:blahblah: cos BEN WAS STILL ALIVE, and more importantly JACOB WAS STILL ALIVE so HEALING=HEALING a human being from a mortal wound

Sayid: JACOB DEAD, HEALING = ?¿ back from... death?

So the blurry thing in this assumption of mine would be, WHY then Jacob insisted on the relevance of not letting Sayid dye, if water didn't had the same power anymore, and could be used as a loophole for instance, why not saying: don't put him into the water? maybe Jacob didn't know the consequences to water because of he not being alive anymore? [that’s why he was after that checking out the water, the questioned scene where we wrongly thought he was pouring ashes…] Or maybe it is because Sayid "died" in the water, that this one didn't make the positive healing effect, but the infecting one? (again, this last assumption, also because of Jacob not alive)

[Xcuz]

nothing dies on the island men..

They lose their life,but the body and evil remains,thats the "Taken" that mib does...
He takes the body of the dead...

And just one thing,Sawyer,Kate and Sayid are bad persons...we love them right,but torture,killing and stealing,and running from the cops are bad things...so...the ones with MIB are the ones with more evil on their hearts,thats just a fact i think...
We cant compare the life before the island of jack/sawyer hurley/sayid...

The one that escapes this is Jin,but he was with Claire as far as we know...

[sigfrik]

Jin did lots of bad stuff working for Sun's father, yeap he was extorted we may say, well, he could've left all the honor crap aside and talk to her, explain the situation and both get to a solution to be together in spite of her dad's crap

[swunk]

about the grey shirts worn by Kate and Miles...

If there's anything to say about shirts having a meaning, Hurley's walking around in a red shirt since the beginning of the season. Red shirt is considered to mean "you're dead in the next episode, sorry about that". He's still alive so no hidden clues in the shirts. Kate bye the way has been wearing grey for about half the time she was on screen so my say is there's nothing there.

I think people are sometimes looking in to stuff way way way to far...