Ashes & the Temple

[saeidhalvaeian]

What is the black ash that protects people from smokey? I think they are ashes belonging to someone... but who got burnt up??

[Trum_15]

maybe the ash's of jacob. maybe thats why smokey couldn't kill jacob and ben had too?

[bigboss]

i don't think its ashes of one person. because when the temple others were preparing their base a few people had large jugs of that ash so its way too much to come from one person. and its not jacob's ashes cuz thats under the stautue's foot.

[saeidhalvaeian]

nah i don't think jacob's ashes make sense-- i really dunno. but i mean, there has to be some meaning behind it? can't just be some random black powder. where is it from and why does it keep him away?

[Capt. Kool]

Could be remains of the statue.:confused:

[Trum_15]

Could be remains of the statue.:confused:

that could be, i want to know what happened to the statue!:confused:

[Big Eric]

I've also thought more about the ashes now that I've seen this episode. Remember the ring of ashes around the cabin? Sounds like they were meant to keep someone trapped in the cabin, or someone from the outside from entering into the cabin.......

[saeidhalvaeian]

Yeah I think that was to protect Jacob from Smokey.

[sedjo]

I dont think the ashes were the remains of the statue. If that were the case, I would think the statue itself would also have the ability to stop the smoke monster from entering it, and in tonights episode we plainly saw this was not the case. Fake Locke walked right into the statue, and as the smoke monster he came in and threw a bucnh of people around.

I haven't thought on this much yet, but I think the ashes might have something to do with the origins of the smoke monster. Maybe the site it was summoned or created in ancient times. Kind of a location not unlike the fountain. I mean, smoke and ashes are both produced by fire, so if the monster didn't always exist (which it may or may not have), then whatever produced the monster may have also produced the ash which is used to keep it at bay.

[tjlukanowski]

maybe the ash's of jacob. maybe thats why smokey couldn't kill jacob and ben had too?

Lol, it's not Jacob's Ashes. Jacob died shortly before they even entered so no one had access to the ashes that quickly.

Anyone else notice that Jacob left behind no skeleton when he was burnt?

[saeidhalvaeian]

Anyone else notice that Jacob left behind no skeleton when he was burnt?

Yeah, cause he's not dead! He was still breathing when he was pushed into the fire... can you say magic trick??? Hahaha...

[summee]

I did notice that the others put out their fire while they were creating the ash ring around camp. Jacob "died" in a fire and ashes come from fires... Don't understand the connection but it's there :)

[crybaby314]

Banyan Trees seem to protect folks from the Monster, maybe the ashes are Banyan ash... ..?

[boblincoln]

We saw the ash a lot tonight. First, Jacob’s bodyguard poured ash around himself to protect himself from the Smoke monster. Later, the real Others started to pour it around their temple to most likely protect themselves from the coming monster. We’ve also seen the ash a few other times, one time was very important to notice.

In the season 5 finale the bodyguards approached Jacob’s shack. When they saw that the ash line had been broken, they reacted fearfully. Later, they burned the shack down. Remember why? They found the fabric stabbed through the wall…the same fabric that "Locke" cut off the rug in Jacob’s tomb below the statue. They said that “he hasn’t been here for a long time, someone else has.”

We also saw the ash in season 4 when Ben took Locke to Jacob’s shack. At that time, Locke heard some apparition say “Help me”. Now, the ash could be there for one of two reasons. One, it could have been there to keep the Monster/Man in black stuck inside the shack. Or, two, it could have been there to keep Jacob safe in his shack from the monster. I have already decided which answer is right but I’ll let you think about it.

Keep in mind, IF it was the man in black in the shack during season 4, then that means it wasn't Jacob asking Locke for help.

[cuhls28]

This is different than the ash thread because it deals with the question of why didn't the ashes work to protect Brom from Smokey in the foot and why did the Other Others start putting out all of the fires? My thought is that somehow fire being around the ash somehow cancels out the ashes' effects. Moreover, this might explain how MIB escaped the cabin that was surrounded by ash -- did Locke/Ben have a fire when they walked over the ash line? I think they did. I know they had fire when they entered the cabin, but I'm specifically talking about when they were near the ash.

This is episode specific because it mainly deals with the question "why did the leader of the Other Others order everyone to put out all the fires in the Temple"?

[TheIslandToldMe]

We saw the ash a lot tonight. First, Jacob’s bodyguard poured ash around himself to protect himself from the Smoke monster. Later, the real Others started to pour it around their temple to most likely protect themselves from the coming monster. We’ve also seen the ash a few other times, one time was very important to notice.

In the season 5 finale the bodyguards approached Jacob’s shack. When they saw that the ash line had been broken, they reacted fearfully. Later, they burned the shack down. Remember why? They found the fabric stabbed through the wall…the same fabric that "Locke" cut off the rug in Jacob’s tomb below the statue. They said that “he hasn’t been here for a long time, someone else has.”

We also saw the ash in season 4 when Ben took Locke to Jacob’s shack. At that time, Locke heard some apparition say “Help me”. Now, the ash could be there for one of two reasons. One, it could have been there to keep the Monster/Man in black stuck inside the shack. Or, two, it could have been there to keep Jacob safe in his shack from the monster. I have already decided which answer is right but I’ll let you think about it.

Keep in mind, IF it was the man in black in the shack during season 4, then that means it wasn't Jacob asking Locke for help.


jacobs interactions with everyone else are chronological to him but not for everyone else. my statement alone explains a lot.

[cuhls28]

in case my other thread gets deleted:

why didn't the ashes work to protect Brom from Smokey in the foot and why did the Other Others start putting out all of the fires? My thought is that somehow fire being around the ash somehow cancels out the ashes' effects. Moreover, this might explain how MIB escaped the cabin that was surrounded by ash -- did Locke/Ben have a fire when they walked over the ash line? I think they did. I know they had fire when they entered the cabin, but I'm specifically talking about when they were near the ash.

[czb]

i think its obviously dead peoples ashes. In one of the first time travelling episodes, Richard asks for bodies of his people. I think this in combo with some kind of protection agaisnt smokie has to do with dead bodies and ash.

[saeidhalvaeian]

why didn't the ashes work to protect Brom from Smokey in the foot

Smokey knocked part of the ceiling down, Brom stepped out of the circle for a second.... doneskis.

[TheIslandToldMe]

I thought it was kind of stupid to put the fires out, considering they just launched a flare rocket into the air. Plus it's not like smokey doesn't know where they are.

[saeidhalvaeian]

Maybe they burn the ashes because 1) It keeps Smokey away and 2) Smokey then cannot "transform" into them or take their image or whatever he does...

[czb]

yea he has never taken form of a living person as far as I can remember. Unless certain visions of some people were him in disguise like when Locke saw Walt when he was shot and Juliet saw that psychiatrist. But I'm not so sure that was smokie.

[Soturks]

I can't recall what season, but in Ben's first (I think) flashback they were learning in class about the islands Volcano and how it's dormant.

I think the ash is from said Volcano.

[Boiiinng]

Watch it again. Smokie hit the ceiling knocking down some stone that hit Bram and knocked him out of the circle.

[Dub C]

First, the ash around Jacob's cabin wasn't to protect him from smokie. As we know now, smokie and MIB are the same, and neither could directly kill Jacob. So Jacob didn't need protecting from smokie. If he did, he would have had the lair under the statue surrounded in some way as well. I think he had it around the cabin as just a 'home away from home' inland island getaway. I don't really think the ash around the cabin is significant other than the instance when Jacob's bodyguards became worried when they saw the line broke.

Anyway, so smokie can't penetrate the sonic fence, nor the ash. The fence is a bit easier to explain due to the, well, sonic-ness of it. But the ash is definitely an interesting mystery.

The real question is, though, is how did he know to encircle himself with the ash in Jacob's lair? And who are these bodyguards of Jacob?

[Battlesword]

I agree there's just way to much ash for it to be a persons ashes. Maybe it's not burnt anything but something ground? Some kind of metal or magnet dust? A primitive, presonic fence portable way to stop the monster.

[L.G.S]

Its clearly shown how Smokie attacked Brom. Pay attention when you watch.

[Wolf_24]

I thought it was kind of stupid to put the fires out, considering they just launched a flare rocket into the air. Plus it's not like smokey doesn't know where they are.

In the 4 toed statue the one guy thought he was safe in the circle of ash and smokey used some rocks to drop and knock him out of the circle. Could he possible do the same thing with the active fire pits outside the temple? My thought was that he could set the temple on fire using the nearby fires. I think this was what L.G.S was getting at.

[Senshi]

Is it just me, or was it implied that Jacob has had other bodies before, and that they've all been burned into ash?

The idea came to me because of the guy who used the ashes to keep Smokey away before he got knocked out of the circle he made.

Perhaps the ashes that surrounded the cabin and that the Others started frantically spreading around New Other City™ were previous burned bodies?

[chrismo16]

We saw the ash a lot tonight. First, Jacob’s bodyguard poured ash around himself to protect himself from the Smoke monster. Later, the real Others started to pour it around their temple to most likely protect themselves from the coming monster. We’ve also seen the ash a few other times, one time was very important to notice.

In the season 5 finale the bodyguards approached Jacob’s shack. When they saw that the ash line had been broken, they reacted fearfully. Later, they burned the shack down. Remember why? They found the fabric stabbed through the wall…the same fabric that "Locke" cut off the rug in Jacob’s tomb below the statue. They said that “he hasn’t been here for a long time, someone else has.”

We also saw the ash in season 4 when Ben took Locke to Jacob’s shack. At that time, Locke heard some apparition say “Help me”. Now, the ash could be there for one of two reasons. One, it could have been there to keep the Monster/Man in black stuck inside the shack. Or, two, it could have been there to keep Jacob safe in his shack from the monster. I have already decided which answer is right but I’ll let you think about it.

Keep in mind, IF it was the man in black in the shack during season 4, then that means it wasn't Jacob asking Locke for help.
I would like to add that Smokie has never been able to kill Jacob directly therefore no need to protect Jacob with ash. I am convinced it was to trap Smokie inside.

I am conflicted tho. I was under the impression that the ash was broken when Hurley fell to the ground and crawled away. The ash seemed to be in tact when Ben and Locke visited. This doesn't fit because Smokie has been free since the pilot...

[pure.Wasted]

Everyone keeps bringing up the issue of Smokie being locked in the ash...

Are we forgetting one of the most crucial bits of Smokie mythology introduced in season 4? He has to be summoned. Maybe that is the process that gets him out on a temporary lease, and eventually he has to go back.

It's a sort of win-win. Since Smoke seems to hate new people coming to the island, Ben (or someone else) can free him for the time being to get rid of a common foe. After that, Smokie is once again chained against his will, but at least he's prevented the situation from getting even worse (in his eyes).

[TheIslandToldMe]

In the 4 toed statue the one guy thought he was safe in the circle of ash and smokey used some rocks to drop and knock him out of the circle. Could he possible do the same thing with the active fire pits outside the temple? My thought was that he could set the temple on fire using the nearby fires. I think this was what L.G.S was getting at.

except, the fires were within the temple walls.

[UConnBigO]

Yeah i'm very interested to learn about what Ben did to "summon" the monster, because I don't understand how that happened. When he summoned it, the smoke would want to kill the mercenaries because they were after Ben, and smokie at this point knew he needed Ben to kill Jacob.

I think MiB was locked in the cabin but maybe jacob was appearing as the smoke monster early on in an effort to keep the losties at the beach and not interacting with the others so there would be no conflict.

I originally thought evil guy was locked in the cabin but could appear outside as the smoke only, but now I dont like that so much, he shouldnt be able to go through the ash at all

[dotlock]

I'm curious: since the circle of ash protects people from smokie (that light above the guy's head was interesting), would it also protect them from him in his "body" of Locke? As in, if the fake Locke had punched the guy in the circle, would he have been able to hit him? Hm.