The other Others

[Spindoll]

Are the Others stuck on that Island because they are duplicates from some different timeline divergence? Are they Doomed to stay there or can they slip off the Island from time to time like Tom.

[brandita]

Well it was interesting to finally find out where the kids (zach and emma) went. The fact that they and the flight attendant from the plane are there seems to make me believe that they have been there all along. They appear to be Jacob's friends or something as they know the danger the smoke monster poses and how to keep it out.

[hunter9185]

Now i think we know what the whispers were that the survivors hear, notice how right before all the "other others" showed up you heard the whispers, and the flight attendant is one of them, who was snatched out of thin air at the start of Season 2 when she was traveling with Mr Eko, anna lucia, Michael, Sawyer, and Jin to the main survivors camp.

[Swordsman]

First off, Hiroyuki Sanada is BADASS! He makes me wish I knew another language just to be able to shun English and have someone translate for me. :p

My theory is that The Other Others are Jacob's people/pet project (ie. Jacob being of the mindset that people can live peacefully on the island). Being such, Jacob told them the secrets of the spring...which I believe is the key to longevity/eternal life/or at least rapid cellular regeneration (At least that's what I thought was implied when Hiroyuki's character tested the water by cutting open his hand).

Jacob also let them know the secret of keeping out Anti-Jacob (the barricades and the ash), so that they could go about their daily lives in peace.

[Shoe]

Interesting to note that based on statements made previously by Ben, it would seem the only time he's been there was when he was healed as a child.

That means he "lead" the Others, including Cindy and such, and never ventured into the Temple to converge with the Japanese guy or his translator. And yet Cindy is there.

I'm not theorizing, yet. I'm just wondering what the deal is with Ben's others and these Others, as they all seem to be a part of the same faction.

[Spindoll]

Did the kids seem to still be about the same age as before, I'll have to check, unlike Walt who grew significantly. Do the healing waters retard aging hench slowing their growth rates.

[Milhouse911]

Did the kids seem to still be about the same age as before, I'll have to check, unlike Walt who grew significantly. Do the healing waters retard aging hench slowing their growth rates.

I'm not certain, but I think it was the same actors playing the kids. And they looked older.

[flowerfairy]

The Asian leader...he seemed almost ethereal. Sort of Richard-like in a way.

So....totally reaching here - I know. But the thought came to me that if the chains Fake Locke referred to for Richard actually were Black Rock related, what if Richard and Other Leader Guy were both descendants of the Black Rock?

Like I said, reaching! lol But it came to me, so I was wondering if anybody else had that crazy thought as well.

Slave ships in the era of the Black Rock were multi-racial.

[badfish311]

I believe Richard and some of the others are from the black rock. And Richard did mention to Locke that another group of their people were at the temple.

[Dan-KF]

All of the others are a collection of people who have gone to the island and are under jacobs 'wing'

[kid320]

The Asian leader...he seemed almost ethereal. Sort of Richard-like in a way.

So....totally reaching here - I know. But the thought came to me that if the chains Fake Locke referred to for Richard actually were Black Rock related, what if Richard and Other Leader Guy were both descendants of the Black Rock?

Like I said, reaching! lol But it came to me, so I was wondering if anybody else had that crazy thought as well.

Slave ships in the era of the Black Rock were multi-racial.

I doubt they were descendants, considering Richard never ages. I think Richard was Captain of the Black Rock and Asian Leader could have been a slave, originally. Being enslaved by English speaking people could be a reason to not want to speak English.

[TMoney777]

Anyone else somewhat preparing themselves for the old Batman Begins switcheroo? Liam Neeson was really Ra's al Ghul all along, ala hippie translator guy is really the man in charge over the awesome Japanese guy from Last Samurai?

[bobyo]

Did the kids seem to still be about the same age as before, I'll have to check, unlike Walt who grew significantly. Do the healing waters retard aging hench slowing their growth rates.


the actor playing Walt was hitting puberty. These kids are significantly younger, and I'm pretty sure they were the same actors.

Well it was interesting to finally find out where the kids (zach and emma) went. The fact that they and the flight attendant from the plane are there seems to make me believe that they have been there all along. They appear to be Jacob's friends or something as they know the danger the smoke monster poses and how to keep it out.


we saw cindy (twice) and the kids in season 3.

[H-Bomb]

I'm trying to remember when I heard Damon Lindelof respond to a question about there being two factions of others by advising us to pay attention to their feet. Was it a podcast during season two?

The inhabitants of the temple are barefoot, and I'm not sure we've seen barefoot others since Jin saw them pass by, dragging the teddy bear in season two.

[Gronk]

I do like Cindy's long hair and her "going native" style.... ;) .

I was wondering what happened to her and the 2 children, glad to see they haven't just disappeared.

[Chichiri]

First off, Hiroyuki Sanada is BADASS! He makes me wish I knew another language just to be able to shun English and have someone translate for me. :p


Is that the actor's name? Hiroyuki Sanada? You're right, he is very badass. I want to find more of his work. :D

Do we have names for the Others-at-the-Temple? If not, I hereby dub them Japanese Guy and John Lennon Glasses.

[flowerfairy]

I doubt they were descendants, considering Richard never ages. I think Richard was Captain of the Black Rock and Asian Leader could have been a slave, originally. Being enslaved by English speaking people could be a reason to not want to speak English.

Oh. I didn't mean they were descendants as in relatives...I meant descendants as in they descended from the ship. lol. It was late. We're thinking along the same lines. I think he was a slave, too. But I think Richard was also a slave...possibly...thus the "chains" line by Smoke Locke.

[Havoc]

The inhabitants of the temple are barefoot, and I'm not sure we've seen barefoot others since Jin saw them pass by, dragging the teddy bear in season two.

Somewhere in Season 5 Sawyer is barefoot, I think it's just lack of shoes on the island.

[acquiweb]

Are we to assume these people are responsible for the whispers? If so then why? And if you've read transcripts you will note that they read like people observing. If they were observing why didn't just kill them as they were about to before Hurley spoke up about Jacob?

[Paul25]

does anyone have a screenshot of these children , i seem to have missed that part ..

[Swordsman]

Is that the actor's name? Hiroyuki Sanada? You're right, he is very badass. I want to find more of his work. :D

Do we have names for the Others-at-the-Temple? If not, I hereby dub them Japanese Guy and John Lennon Glasses.

Yeah - Hiroyuki Sanada is the Actor, I have a feeling we won't know the character's name for a little while yet. He was also "Ujio" in "The Last Samurai" and more recently, in "Rush Hour 3" as the main bad dude...but that movie was terrible.

[Mal de Mer]

The asian leader kinda seemed like a poor man's Jet Li to me. And the hippy trranslator was laughable.

[matt4848]

Oh. I didn't mean they were descendants as in relatives...I meant descendants as in they descended from the ship. lol. It was late. We're thinking along the same lines. I think he was a slave, too. But I think Richard was also a slave...possibly...thus the "chains" line by Smoke Locke.

Yea, with what I'm calling Evil Smoke Locke, was quoted 'Glad to see you OUT of those chains, richard' and considering the only time we have really scene chains (other than jack at the hydra in season 3) was in the black rock.

I think that line gives us a huge hint that richard and some on the island are directly from the black rock, as either slaves or crew.

Richard was obviously a slave. Why else would he be in chains.

[Spindoll]

I think that these Temple Others never took up residence in New Otherton with the Ben/Juliette Book Club reading, quiche eating, shower taking, deodorant wearing, shampoo using, washing machine running group we saw in earlier seasons. They seem to be more hard core with a different agenda. Perhaps even a more spiritual attachment to the Island than Ben or Widmore ever had.

Aside from his healing, it doesn’t seen that Ben actually spent any time at the Temple and Richard didn’t seem to have ever lived at New Otherton.

Of course it's too early to really know.

I remember one time Richard saying something about not being totally down with Ben's fertility agenda.

[Livin73]

So, who is really in charge? If these guys (Richard, Japanese Guy, etc...) have been there a long time, why pick new leaders, such as Ben? Or is that just a figurehead position? Maybe Ben thought he was in charge, but the real bosses just let him think that. Or Ben was just in charge of the Others that were not at the temple. Hope we get some clarification on this.

[josh.greenfield]

Richard was obviously a slave. Why else would he be in chains.

Kate was in chains (handcuffs) when brought to the island...

[Valenzetti]

I think that these Temple Others never took up residence in New Otherton with the Ben/Juliette Book Club reading, quiche eating, shower taking, deodorant wearing, shampoo using, washing machine running group we saw in earlier seasons. They seem to be more hard core with a different agenda. Perhaps even a more spiritual attachment to the Island than Ben or Widmore ever had.

Aside from his healing, it doesn’t seen that Ben actually spent any time at the Temple and Richard didn’t seem to have ever lived at New Otherton.

Of course it's too early to really know.

I remember one time Richard saying something about not being totally down with Ben's fertility agenda.

Interesting. You may be on to something.

[glennda]

Do we have names for the Others-at-the-Temple? If not, I hereby dub them Japanese Guy and John Lennon Glasses.

Isn't "John Lennon Glasses guy" the same guy that greeted Ben and his father when they arrived on the island? (or as someone else in this thread dubbed him: "Hippie Translator Guy".

[bobyo]

no, that was Horace.

[drizzt18]

What I found interesting was how these Others were expecting Jacob to come, almost as if it was a common occurence, yet Ben, who was suppose to be the leader of these people, had never once seen Jacob.

[kiblerfaeri]

Why did the Other Others dress like hippies? They seemed even hippier than the New Otherton Others from the 70's.

[Spindoll]

Why did the Other Others dress like hippies? They seemed even hippier than the New Otherton Others from the 70's.

The New Otherton Others were not from the 70's - They didn't take over the barracks until after Ben, with the help of the Others, killed off the Dharma contingent on the Island. I’m not sure of Ben’s age at that time but he must have been at least over 30.

Help with the timeline from those that are more verse would be very helpful here please.

He was more or less a “Tween” at the time he was shot by Sayid in 1977. So we’re at least looking at the 90’s when the barrcks changed hands.

We’ve seen some pretty rag-tag looking Others before – with Cindy, and the kids, while Ecko and Jin were hiding in the bushes when searching for Michael. Remember the bare-foot Others and the kid with the Teddy Bear. I think that was the first time we’d encountered other Others.

Also, back in the 50’s. The Others quickly took over the clothing and supplies of the soldiers. I suspect that resources are fairly scarce – in fact I think the other Others were still using the old army guns. (A verification needed here again if someone could help since I’m no expert on guns.) I bet before the Army landed they looked pretty much like what you called “hippy”.

[drizzt18]

Looked like they were using M1 Garand's, which were the issued American rifle during World War 2, not 100% sure it was that rifle though.

[Gronk]

They had M1 Garands and Carbines, both used by U.S. forces in WW2and thru much of the 1950s. They remained in use by various world armies and irregulars well into the 1970s.

[Light04]

This has been said before,but i really do think there is TWO sets of others! The one's at the temple seem to know alot more,and it seems like they have met jacob b4(is jacob coming to the temple) very casual! Ben on the other hand,is suppose to be there leader and has never even seen jacob!

Also i think the others from season two(the ones you see walking around barefoot with the teddybear are the one's from the temple.

[softarget]

I think that the "others" who wander around the Island have a different purpose than those at the Temple. I wonder if Ben (for example) leads the others who walk the island, while the Others at the Temple remain more constant, and possibly immortal.

[softarget]

But let's not forget, the "others" roaming the island seem to access to the Temple. Remember, Ben sent his daughter, her boyfriend and her mother to the Temple; all though it was unsuccesful.

I think those that regularly inhabit the Temple, and never leave are like Richard... they never age because of the power of Jacob. While the other "Others" have sacrificed this immortality for some other purpose.

[Giraffe]

These "temple others" don't come across as a particularly peaceful or pleasant bunch. Cindy sure has changed since we saw her in S3. She sounded so hard, even when she had Emma & Zach bring refreshments.

Considering what Lennon told Hurley was in the note, neither he or Dogen seemed overly concerned when Sayid 'died' which I thought odd.

I wonder how much Ben actually had to do with the temple (or the people there) during his tenure as 'leader'? (Despite knowing where it was and being half a mile in beyond the wall.)

I also wonder now if the majority of "Others" who lived in the Barracks were actually defectors from the DI and/ or people recruited to the island post purge?

[Sacred Knight]

I always took it that, the amount of former Dharma members that were a part of the Others as we knew them was pretty well diluted. In fact the only two we've ever known concretely is Ben and Ethan, and maybe they were the only two. I always took it that the vast majority of the "new" Others so to speak came from first and foremost Natives/Hostiles, and then post-purge outside world recruits.

At this point I'm assuming that before the mass-exodus to the Temple before the frieghter's arrival in 2004, the Temple was never that heavily occupied save a few permanent residents (like perhaps the Asian fellow and his translator), but that Ben was still technically their leader and they followed the same regulations that those outside the Temple walls did. I have nothing to back that up, obviously, this was just my first impression.

[Giraffe]

I always took it that, the amount of former Dharma members that were a part of the Others as we knew them was pretty well diluted. In fact the only two we've ever known concretely is Ben and Ethan, and maybe they were the only two. I always took it that the vast majority of the "new" Others so to speak came from first and foremost Natives/Hostiles, and then post-purge outside world recruits.

At this point I'm assuming that before the mass-exodus to the Temple before the frieghter's arrival in 2004, the Temple was never that heavily occupied save a few permanent residents (like perhaps the Asian fellow and his translator), but that Ben was still technically their leader and they followed the same regulations that those outside the Temple walls did. I have nothing to back that up, obviously, this was just my first impression.

Well expressed thoughts SK.

I do wonder about the likes of Harper (Goodwin's wife) as she had a certificate from Hanso Foundation on her office wall.

[znyguy]

Mutiny? Maybe Richard was the Captain and a mutiny occurred (led by the MIB)? They then placed Richard in chains.




Richard was obviously a slave. Why else would he be in chains.

[Mumid]

Has anyone got translations for what the Japanese dude was saying?

[James Rieper]

Is anybody else getting tired of the characters constantly being surrounded by a ring of Others pointing guns at them? It's starting to get like the writers are using rifle clicks instead of commas.

I don't really get the hippy thing either. No Macy's on the Island, but still . . . at some point someone obviously got out to J. Crew and stocked up.

The hippy translator keeps reminding me of Dennis Hopper in "Apocalypse Now," a film which also ends in an abandoned temple. That seems a little too close to plaigerism for me to give it a pass. I keep expecting him to say "Zap 'em with the siren."

[Jacob'sAdvisor]

I doubted I was the first to remember this but I didnt see it here
some one mentioned that Asian dude could've been with Richard on the Black Rock; well In season 5 "The Constant" the auctioneer says:

"The Black Rock set sail from Portsmouth, England, March 2, 1845 on a trading mission for the king of Siam when she was tragically lost at sea. The only known artifact of this journey is the journal of the ship's first mate which was discovered among the artifacts of pirates on Eva Saint Marie, Madagascar seven years later. The contents of this journal have never been made public nor are known to anyone outside the family of the seller, Tovard Hanso. We open the bidding on lot 2342 at 150,000 pounds."

maybe he was from Siam. ?

If so that would most likely mean he doesn't age. maybe he is just another "advisor" (-Ben) like Richard

[froody]

I reckon as has been said that there are two sets of others. I think that the temple others are the crew of the black rock with dogan being the captain and a black rock episode will form their back story. But I think richard is older and more deeply connected to Jacob and MIB, probably involving egyptian mythology thanks to all the heiroglyphs we've seen. MIB couldn't be killed by a gun which makes me think he is an egyptian god, Jacob has certain powers but we've seen is still mortal (thanks to ben) which makes me think maybe demi-god or son of a god and a mortal and Richard possibly one of his early followers or pharoahs who was given the gift of eternal life.

[zeppelynn]

I have often heard theories that there are two different groups of Others on the island. I still think they are of one faction. In reguards to the barefoot kids with the teddy bear that Jin and Eko see in the jungle, remember that Juliet and Ben got "dressed up" and dirtified to go to the Pearl station that one time, not to mention how Tom and co were dressed when they took Walt and when they "drew the line" with Kate, Jack, Sawyer, and Locke. So are we to believe that they were acting like they were "native"-ish to cover up the fact that they are really well off in the barracks (J Crew!) but in all reality, they really are native-ish?!?! WTH?! Are you dirty or are you not, Others?! I remember Richard telling Locke that not everyone was down with Ben's continued focus on fertility and the was he was running things in the Barracks. I'm thinking the Others are supposed to be.."of the land", and Ben has made them into J Crew. But not all of them want it to be this way. Locke was right when he said that Ben was cheating, living in a house with a refrigerator etc.

[Boone_lover]

I'm also of the mind that these Others at the temple are kind of different from the Others we've been immersed in so far on the show. I think that the temple Others are a lot more like Richard. Not necessarily that they're also "immortal" or don't age, but that they much more "of the island". They don't seem to be connected to the Others that followed Ben much.

I don't think they were opposing forces, or didn't have the same ideals. I just don't think they worked together often. It seems like these Others are the ones that truly work with the island, instead of going out and about, working with science and Ben's many plans.

I guess a better word to use would be Patrons. The temple Others seems more like Patrons for the island and its mysterious spirituality, like Richard is.

[wahinetoa]

I like the theories on here about Bens/Richards Others, are a faction of the Temple Others.

In S3, Cindy told Jack (after Emma asked about Ana Lucia) that she and the other tallies, including the kids, were going to the temple to see something. She never said what.

I believe that Bens Others took the kids, but the temple others probably covered their tracks and began the whispers to disorient Eko and Lucy when they tried to track them.

Her comment of "They were on the plane with me." is dodgy, 'cause I didn't know she knew Hurley, Sayid or Kate. ??