Ben's Book : A Separate Reality

[Pistol]

any clues to how the book that Ben gave to Sayid ties into tonight's episode??

"A Separate Reality" by Carlos Castaneda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_separate_reality.jpg

[JBaker]

Well, just look at the title. I don't believe the content of the book has any relevance.

It's called "A Separate Reality." In this episode, Sayid kills (or attempts to kill) Ben as a child, thereby creating a separate reality from the one Sayid has lived under Ben's manipulation. The book was just a little nod to the episode's plot.

[buddjas1]

any clues to how the book that Ben gave to Sayid ties into tonight's episode??



Book had references to psychotropic plants, which Sayid experienced as well during the episode.

I think the title of the book is the most important part, suggesting multiple timelines. Fits with the timeline notes that Ceasar found in the Hydra.

[uhhsam]

it involves the use of psychadelics (sayid's interrogation) (also locke's sweat lodge in a non-episode-specific sense)

i think they also chose it because the title is a common theory about the island. the books seem to be fish biscuits most of the time.

[lordsulldemort]

My theory is that they can't alter the 2007 future (where ben, and Sun are), and that they are in fact in a seperate reality.

Paralel universes are all connected to the previous book "a brief history of time" which they mentioned in prior seasons.

I think that the only way that the losties can get back to the present time is by Christian in the 'future'. Until then, I think they are trapped in this seperate reality. After all, the only reason they were in the 70's is because of Ben turning the wheel (which christian told Locke was a bad idea). I think that the present time Ben knows everything that is going on and was trying to get back to the mainland (before Sun knocked him out) in order to properly get back to Christian.

Remember in the shack, when Ben took Locke there to see Jacob, Christian mumbled "help me". I think he was being held there against his will (and that is what the black powder was for, to hold Christian inside) and that he killed John Locke because he is the 'true leader' and the island has selected him always. I think that Ben took the island from Whidmore, and will do anything to take it back now.

[Vashner]

I read this series of books in the 80's they are awesome and well written.

I think there is a link with Locke's talking to the island vision quest.

And of course a link to the stuff they fed Sayid.

[Island Moleman]

Things might turn out like the X-Men comic book series "Age of Apocalypse". In it someone travels back in time and kills a young Professor Xavier, this event causes the timeline to turn out radically different from the one known, causing a seperate reality.

Ben's death may also have the same kind of unimaginable consequences to the way the timeline unravels. Though I'm still sticking with Faraday's theory of 'what happens happens'. I think Ben will either not die or be reborn(like Locke).

[Prismo]

My theory is that they can't alter the 2007 future (where ben, and Sun are), and that they are in fact in a seperate reality.

Paralel universes are all connected to the previous book "a brief history of time" which they mentioned in prior seasons.


I'm absolutely with you on this one.

I know that Faraday said "Whatever happens, happens" in a recent episode, but I think he was wrong when he said that. It's very possible that there are multiple (or infinite) timelines. Young Ben could very well die, while the older Ben that we all know and love remains unaffected.

[tatespa]

Now... I missed half the episode, stupid me, but I did see Syaid shoot young Ben... I think that Ben isn't really dead! I think that Jin will wake up and take the young lad back to the camp and he will recover... though, the seed has been planted and he'll remember Syaid... :shock:

[Jakuurpa]

I got on Wikipedia and read the brief summary, one of the most telling lines is, "The main focus of the book centered around Don Juan's attempts at getting Carlos to See, a practice best described as, in Castaneda's own words, "perceiving energy directly as it flows through the universe".

He does this through taking peyote, which parallels Sayid being dosed with what I think was most likely LSD- it's the 70's and it was dropped on a sugar cube. Then he comes to the conclusion that his purpose there is to kill Ben to prevent his future atrocities.

According to Faraday, this is impossible, so that begs the question, has Ben also been reincarnated like Locke? Is this how he is later worthy to become leader of the 'hostiles'? And finally, has Ben known who Sayid was since season 2, and that is why he knew he could recruit him later to kill all of those people?

[Vashner]

I got on Wikipedia and read the brief summary, one of the most telling lines is, "The main focus of the book centered around Don Juan's attempts at getting Carlos to See, a practice best described as, in Castaneda's own words, "perceiving energy directly as it flows through the universe".

He does this through taking peyote, which parallels Sayid being dosed with what I think was most likely LSD- it's the 70's and it was dropped on a sugar cube. Then he comes to the conclusion that his purpose there is to kill Ben to prevent his future atrocities.

According to Faraday, this is impossible, so that begs the question, has Ben also been reincarnated like Locke? Is this how he is later worthy to become leader of the 'hostiles'? And finally, has Ben known who Sayid was since season 2, and that is why he knew he could recruit him later to kill all of those people?

Here is the tribe that is explored in the book.

http://www.pascuayaqui-nsn.gov/

Yaqui Indians

What does the sacred smoke do? (peyote mix)

It helps them view time & space (past / future / fantasy etc).

That's why I think Locke has a connection to the book from how he "talked" to the island in the past.

[scottyskittles]

it think what has happened to the losties we will find out was their own doing. so everything that is currently happening will lead up to what happened to them in prevues seasons.

[Island Moleman]

I'm absolutely with you on this one.

I know that Faraday said "Whatever happens, happens" in a recent episode, but I think he was wrong when he said that. It's very possible that there are multiple (or infinite) timelines. Young Ben could very well die, while the older Ben that we all know and love remains unaffected.

I don't think he's wrong because the title of the very next episode is "Whatever happened, happened", It's clear by that naming that they want to emphasize that Sayid was supposed to shoot young Ben in the heart, it will change nothing.

[isidro54]

we had a lot of clues about the "doors of perceptions"
- Jerry Garcia/Grateful Dead
- The LSD Sugar Cube
- The Powder around Jacob's Barrack
- Richard Alpert

[Thrawn]

I know that Faraday said "Whatever happens, happens" in a recent episode, but I think he was wrong when he said that. It's very possible that there are multiple (or infinite) timelines. Young Ben could very well die, while the older Ben that we all know and love remains unaffected.

I think he was absolutely right when he said that. With multiple or infinite timelines, there are different events that occure in those timelines. If young Ben in this current timeline dies, it wouldn't affect older Ben because the older Ben is from a different timeline. So, in the timeline where the losties are now, Sayid may very well have been meant to kill young Ben...that's just the way it was suppose to occure in that timeline.

[ephland]

I think he was absolutely right when he said that. With multiple or infinite timelines, there are different events that occure in those timelines. If young Ben in this current timeline dies, it wouldn't affect older Ben because the older Ben is from a different timeline. So, in the timeline where the losties are now, Sayid may very well have been meant to kill young Ben...that's just the way it was suppose to occure in that timeline.

I haven't seen this mentioned here, but what if Sayid had to kill Ben, because there couldn't be two of them on the Island? I understand there is one in 2007 and one in 1977, but does that matter to the Island?

[Island Moleman]

I think he was absolutely right when he said that. With multiple or infinite timelines, there are different events that occure in those timelines. If young Ben in this current timeline dies, it wouldn't affect older Ben because the older Ben is from a different timeline. So, in the timeline where the losties are now, Sayid may very well have been meant to kill young Ben...that's just the way it was suppose to occure in that timeline.

But that theory of time contradicts the phrase "whatever happened happens". Going to an alternate timeline is basically the same as changing what happened, at least from the traveler's perspective.

I haven't seen this mentioned here, but what if Sayid had to kill Ben, because there couldn't be two of them on the Island? I understand there is one in 2007 and one in 1977, but does that matter to the Island?

That makes absolutely no sense in even the slightest way. There's a Ben in 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, and so forth and so on. And the same goes for everybody else respective to what years they were on the island. In fact, there are an infinite number of any 1 person as you divide the timeline of their life into smaller and smaller spans of time. I think you should lay off whatever Oldman gave Sayid. :rotflol:

[ephland]

But that theory of time contradicts the phrase "whatever happened happens". Going to an alternate timeline is basically the same as changing what happened, at least from the traveler's perspective.



That makes absolutely no sense in even the slightest way. There's a Ben in 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, and so forth and so on. And the same goes for everybody else respective to what years they were on the island. In fact, there are an infinite number of any 1 person as you divide the timeline of their life into smaller and smaller spans of time. I think you should lay off whatever Oldman gave Sayid. :rotflol:

Thanks for your constructive criticism. You must be a blast to hang out with.

[Island Moleman]

Thanks for your constructive criticism. You must be a blast to hang out with.


And you must be a joy with which to have intelligent conversations. :rolleyes:

[ephland]

And you must be a joy with which to have intelligent conversations. :rolleyes:

only with people who are able and willing, apparently.

[jakeboy]

I'm absolutely with you on this one.

I know that Faraday said "Whatever happens, happens" in a recent episode, but I think he was wrong when he said that. It's very possible that there are multiple (or infinite) timelines. Young Ben could very well die, while the older Ben that we all know and love remains unaffected.

I disagree. Sawyer saved Ethans mother (in the past) from dying thus allowing Ethan to be born. Had things not happened the way they did that event would not have happened and Ethan would not have existed in Sawyers "future" timeline.
Which proves the "whatever happens, happens" statement.

[shred]

Why the juvenile exchanges in this thread? What do you accomplish by being rude? (Sarcasm doesn't disguise it, either.)

Why the untagged spoilers? It's a good idea to read the rules before you start posting so you don't break one and get banned.

Can we please take this thread back to the topic of Ben's book?

[Vashner]

Yea it's a shame the thread has to be probably locked just out of general principle of derailment.

And it's an inslut to a wonderful writer who's books are so deep and deserve some high minding thought.

Sawyer was right... read a book you might learn something.

I actually have read this book 19 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ihfeOpyTDc

[Direwolf]

Yo I actually finished this book 2 weeks ago and kinda freaked out when I saw it. Its amazing how much the books makes sense to the events of lost. Everything that is taught in that book is somehow observed in the actions of the show. READ IT!!!!!! :w00t: