Locke Dead!?

[mitchellstafiej]

Locke is dead, what happened???

[Forkes]

oh my god oh my god oh my god... WHAT!?!?

[KAHANA]

Zomggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

[eyeland27]

He CAN'T Be Dead... he's the new Ben?

[aj1978]

He will be doing the "Obi-Wan". That's my guess

[mitchellstafiej]

It's so hard to take in. Wasn't Ben supposed to die? What did he do!!?!?!

[Vashner]

Only in that time and place / dimension.

[Bilbos Dragons]

Doesn't make sense. How could that be? Knowing this is going to have a huge bearing on the show now. WTF???!!!

[varunc58]

did locke die on the island or outside of it?? if the latter, how the hell did only he manage to get out after the oceanic 6?? if the former, how the hell did only his head dead body get out??

[TheIslandToldMe]

yep, we're basically right back at the beginning of the season again, time wise.

I never would of thought lock would have been in that casket. you think he will be brought back to life on the island? I wonder how he even ended up off the island to have a funeral in the first place. they moved the island and still bad things happened.

[pshkbb]

kind of a spoiler for folks don't you think?

[vaddmyster1]

Omfg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jwb4291]

i called that when Jack first visited the coffin

cause the dude was like Friend or Family and jack said neither and i knew it was Locke
if you dont believe me ill find the post

[Austen]

like, WHAT?!?! it has to have something to do with the time frames. if island time is faster, maybe he lived for awhile there before coming home and dying. not just 3 years.

[eyeland27]

Okay Take A DEEP Breath Here Guys. It's Locke... The coffin was smaller than a usual one would be. Jack was told that bad things happened after he left. Maybe the Island was mad that those 6 were gone... The Island want's Aaron back...

The island gave Locke the power to walk, and then clearly took it away.

[TheIslandToldMe]

kind of a spoiler for folks don't you think?

if it is I apologize, but I assume that after an episode airs, it should be safe to talk about 'spoilers'. why else would a person check the forums for this specific episode if they weren't looking to discuss it or read about it?

[Senorzimmy]

Gah! Locke was the most BA on Lost (besides possibly Richard). My heart is sinking. As in not sunk, because the depths of my soul can't fathom it. Get it? Fathom... But seriously. Gah!

[django5]

maybe Locke is the next Jacob?

[Dan-KF]

Wow...he is alive on island....and dead in 2007....WOW!

[whoopiedoo]

that doesnt make sense

How did his "body" get off the island?
And since he was under an alias, how did Jack know it was him??

Did he learn it from "Jacob"?

[TheMeek]

kind of a spoiler for folks don't you think?
Spoilers don't matter post episode. :D

[big_eazy]

Why did the island let Locke die?

[mtztmac]

So Locke will wake back up once they bring the body back just like Christian?

[fromagex]

I bet he'll be alive and well once he gets back to the island. Keep in mind, Jack said he had visited him about a month ago, meaning he was off the island. Possibly able to die? Or, rather, "die."

[giles888]

tagging this a spoiler but i really have no clue.who isn't to say may be he was dead the entire time he's been on the island and that's why he can walk and that's why he's looked up to.

[playaTE85]

wow... i cant believe he is dead
i mean he was such a major character...

[whoopiedoo]

What if he wasnt dead?
He was just playing dead?
huh, id love that to happen

[nnuu]

My guess is ....just like what happened to ben having to move the island something bad happened that maybe Locke had to move the island again and then leaves the island just like Ben

[Pyrexia]

Thats exactly what i tink too ;)He will be doing the "Obi-Wan". That's my guess

[fennesz]

tagging this a spoiler but i really have no clue.who isn't to say may be he was dead the entire time he's been on the island and that's why he can walk and that's why he's looked up to.
Good call.

Although I still can't believe that it's him in the casket. I guess I'm in sort of a state of shock/denial right now.

I'm hoping that once they all eventually make it back to the island (hopefully) some sort of giant awesome-gasm will bring him back to life.

[adkchamp]

i guess it's a build up for the conclusion...Jacob will take John Locke's appearance as he speaks to Jack and the losties...i think this show will have time traveling and the whole point of this show is to stop the pilot who crashed the plane (he works for windmore or maybe the black dude)

[pshkbb]

if it is I apologize, but I assume that after an episode airs, it should be safe to talk about 'spoilers'. why else would a person check the forums for this specific episode if they weren't looking to discuss it or read about it?

I am just saying as it has not aired on the west coast yet - kind of a biggie....

[beejreit]

My guess is ....just like what happened to ben having to move the island something bad happened that maybe Locke had to move the island again and then leaves the island just like Ben

second that...

[mikebrunski]

It was a clone, or atleast thats what i think. The only station we didn't visit on the show was The Orchid station, the one with the tape of the two bunnies. Along with making a Time machine, they created a Cloning machine to deal with the fact they can't reproduce on the island. This is why Richard has looked the same age all these years, there just clones

[LoganFan]

Do they explain why the coffin was small? Was it because his legs were amputated as some had speculated?

(Sorry for the cross post, but I think this is the correct thread to ask this instead of the Live Episode Thread.)

[squeakposm]

I'm curious about everyone referring to Locke by a different name. Is it possible he has a doppleganger of some sort? It's entirely possible that they referred to him by a different name as a safety measure, but just throwing it out there anyway. Somehow I can't believe the writers would actually kill him off-his character still has a lot to do.

[fromagex]

Why would you be reading a forum post on something that happened in the ep. if you haven't seen it? Setting yourself up, aren't you?

[ogetbilo]

I finally guessed something right.
It was a long shot but I hit the bull's eye :)
Sorry Locke...

He might have used the submarine. There were speculations about Locke hiding it. But wouldn't it stay at the same place when the island moved?

[Steve34436]

Nah, he just wasn't full of shit. Hope I don't get banned for that lol.

Caesar salad wasn't my first choise of words.

[eyeland27]

Locke was never seen losing his legs. Just something I came up with. The coffin was smaller... so instantly I thought about his previous state (wheelchair). Sorry to confuse.

[carsonlss]

To Ogetbilo:
You and probably 100,000 other people.

[Shoe]

I don't buy it. Soon as they take him back to the island, he'll wake up.

[octavia]

Poor John, he never got the chance to be truly happy.

He was abandoned by him mom, he grew up in foster care, he accidentally betrayed the only people that cared for him, his mom betrayed him, his dad smurfed him up, his girlfrind left him because he was still obsessed with his dad, then he tried to kill him and left him paralized instead, he crashes on the worst island anybody can even land on, when his finally finds a place where he felt he belonged, "bad things started to happen", when he tries to stop those bad things by trying to convince O6 to go back, they don't believe him and probably tell him to smurf off. Finally he dies.

Poor John :(

Smurf??? Fine, Smurf = the f word

[harringstone]

I refuse to believe that is locke in that casket... im not sure but i think the reason he is there and shown as dead has to do with the orchid station, if any of you have seen that orchid video that shows the two exact rabbits being near each other when they werent supposed to be has to do with why "locke" is in that casket.... anyone care to comment on that?

[eyeland27]

So you think everyone is really going to go back? With Dead Locke?

[carsonlss]

I refuse to believe that is locke in that casket... im not sure but i think the reason he is there and shown as dead has to do with the orchid station, if any of you have seen that orchid video that shows the two exact rabbits being near each other when they werent supposed to be has to do with why "locke" is in that casket.... anyone care to comment on that?

Very good idea, yea the video that was online, showing the host freaking out telling them to not let them get close to each other.

[Macavity]

Maybe he's still alive

[rosegeorge]

So you think everyone is really going to go back? With Dead Locke?

I think they progressively will come to realize that they do in fact need to go back. It's just going to take a lot of convincing.

But Ben's good at that.

[KAHANA]

Poor John, he never got the chance to be truly happy.

He was abandoned by him mom, he grew up in foster care, he accidentally betrayed the only people that cared for him, his mom betrayed him, his dad smurfed him up, his girlfrind left him because he was still obsessed with his dad, then he tried to kill him and left him paralized instead, he crashes on the worst island anybody can even land on, when his finally finds a place where he felt he belonged, "bad things started to happen", when he tries to stop those bad things by trying to convince O6 to go back, they don't believe him and probably tell him to smurf off. Finally he dies.

Poor John :(

well we dont know what happened between him becomeing the leader of the others and his death

[Exie]

Smurf??? Fine, Smurf = the f wordYes. This is a PG-13 forum.

[Steve34436]

He might have been there to help them get off the island, just my opinion. Don't think were done seeing him though lol.

[harringstone]

yeah i definetly dig that doppleganger sort of approach to this, i mean seriously, if you watch that, it seems to be along those lines im sure, maybe not exactly though

[pshkbb]

i think that locke being "dead" is the only way they can convince the 6 to go back and since Kate does not seem to want to take Aaron back it is a bit hinky. It could be ben manipulating things to get back there himself.

[harringstone]

heh, ben is ALWAYS where he wants to be, im sure he had a reason in doing what he did

[CrazyFr0g]

it just me or anyone else notice Hugo seems to know about "Bentham"
and sayid said not to say the name
so that means the guys know about locke
something fishy fishy
i actually had forgotten there was another part,
thought this was the end, and i thought "well thats gay"
till i saw it saying whats happening next

[squeakposm]

i think that locke being "dead" is the only way they can convince the 6 to go back and since Kate does not seem to want to take Aaron back it is a bit hinky. It could be ben manipulating things to get back there himself.

In relation to convincing the 6 to go back, Locke could definitely be some sort of island apparition in the same way that Jack's dad seems to be able to show up anywhere- touchable, material, realistic, but dead (undead?). I mean, Charlie showed up to talk to Hurley, and it's possible that Charlie was part of the Island. Maybe since Hurley seems to communicate with the dead (or the island) more than the rest, he'll be the key. Seeing Locke might convince him somehow? That may convince the others?

[harringstone]

Okay Take A DEEP Breath Here Guys. It's Locke... The coffin was smaller than a usual one would be. Jack was told that bad things happened after he left. Maybe the Island was mad that those 6 were gone... The Island want's Aaron back...

The island gave Locke the power to walk, and then clearly took it away.

i like that idea as well, as if locke was only "dead" because the island wanted them all back and this proved to be an incentive to do so

[calaban9]

In terms of some of the questions as to whether he died on or off the island... Jack and Ben's conversation clearly leads you to believe that Locke was off the island for at least a month trying to convince everyone to go back to the island. He obviously used an alias to cover the fact that another oceanic flight survivor was walking around. Locke also knew that Ben was off the island... since he passed that info onto Jack ,, so Locke and Ben must have talked before his death.. or before he talked to Jack.

Remember.. Ben always has a plan....

[ogetbilo]

Locke is dead. Very dead. Or it was his twin brother...

carsonlss: Sorry, I don't get it.

[h3spencer]

I think Locke is still going to be in the show in some way. the producers have said that the next season is about "why they need to get back" my bet is that the show will take place in 2007 and they will go back to the old-school Flash-Back format to show what happend and john will be in ALOT of that

[monkeymaniac808]

I refuse to believe that is locke in that casket... im not sure but i think the reason he is there and shown as dead has to do with the orchid station, if any of you have seen that orchid video that shows the two exact rabbits being near each other when they werent supposed to be has to do with why "locke" is in that casket.... anyone care to comment on that?

I was just thinking that too, because I really doubt that they would kill off Locke completely. He's such an important character. And from watching the orchid video I'm guessing that as a side affect of the time traveling a double/clone could be created and thats the Locke in the coffin?

[whoopiedoo]

But Ben's good at that.

I think he's also got the help from Sayid too, or unless Sayid is taking Hurley to get away from Ben and everyone else so they dont go back.



Does this include Desmond too??

[harringstone]

I was just thinking that too, because I really doubt that they would kill off Locke completely. He's such an important character. And from watching the orchid video I'm guessing that as a side affect of the time traveling a double/clone could be created and thats the Locke in the coffin?

exactly what im thinking, if locke is so important to the island, which i believe he is, then why would he just be killed off like that without a successor to be the islands version of a leader like ben was before him

[avatarman]

Ben told Locke that when he went to lead the others they would tell him everything.... So Locke finds out what is really going on and feels he needs to go warn Jack and the rest who left the Island.

Of course Locke has to use an alias (he's the one who told Jack they'd have to lie once they got back to civilization). He goes to Jack and the rest of the 6 and tries to convince them of the truth (what he learned from the others) and no one wants to go along with him and in the meantime somebody offs him.

That's what I am thinking at this point anyway.

First they have to fight to get off the dang Island and now they'll all be fighting to get back to it.

Love this show!

[Stinkyf1re]

Perhaps Locke and all of the Oceanic Six returning to the island will bring Locke back to life!!

[Angelmonster]

I don't buy it. Soon as they take him back to the island, he'll wake up.

That's what I am afraid of. Still, so far everyone who has died has stayed...well not Mikhail...but I just hope that they keep him dead. He is an important character but if they bring him back to life that would be...well, stupid.

[dirtydesmond]

It was a clone, or atleast thats what i think. The only station we didn't visit on the show was The Orchid station, the one with the tape of the two bunnies. Along with making a Time machine, they created a Cloning machine to deal with the fact they can't reproduce on the island. This is why Richard has looked the same age all these years, there just clones

CLONES!! are you kidding me? i know its lost,but CLONES!!! i think you should clone some of your braincells and come up with another theory

[harringstone]

CLONES!! are you kidding me? i know its lost,but CLONES!!! i think you should clone some of your braincells and come up with another theory

buddy, why dont you calm down and quit insulting people for their guesses...have you even seen the video that he is referring to, because if you did, you would realize he has a valid guess on what the hell is actually occuring....grow up

[giles888]

i agree with that maybe they have to bring dead locke to the locke on the island and it will present different effects.



i dunno, GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT TIL JANUARY!


so lame.

[detoxboy]

im thinking Locke is dead, but in tonights episode the flash forward did not happen in one time line. it was progressive. it ended with 3 years from when they got rescued. so therefore im thinking that the next seasons we will see what happened to Lock and why he was off the island. So im thinking he will back in the 5th and 6th season to show how he got to this point in time which we saw in the funeral home.

[Steve34436]

I don't know but think that since he put something "above" himself, maybe thats why he seemed to have a smile when we saw him last. Oh and why ben wanted to be there. Or felt the need to try and distort the situation, or distract. I mean he did tell Jack to watch. He had a plan too. Or at least knew he played a part in one lol.

[carsonlss]

CLONES!! are you kidding me? i know its lost,but CLONES!!! i think you should clone some of your braincells and come up with another theory

Before you mindlessly rant about something, please watch these and tell me a clone is not possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSZVkch09Qg
And btw, where your theory at?

[Milhouse911]

Yeah, Locke had to use an alias off the island because the Oceanic 6 said he died in the plane crash.

Locke is now the leader of the others, so surely Richard would tell him how to travel on and off the island. Remember, Richard leaves all the time to recruit new others.

I think the only reason Locke would leave the island was to try to convince the Oceanic 6 to come back. Jack tells Ben in 2007 that Locke told him lots of bad things happened after the 6 left. Jacob probably tells Locke the island is angry because the 6 weren't supposed to leave.

I think that when he leaves the island, the island gets angry at Locke, which leads to his death.

And I totally agree that we'll still see lots of Locke on and off the island before the time of his death. I think the time of his death is very close to the end of the timeframe for the show. I believe the show will end a few months after the most recent flash-forwards we've seen. The Oceanic 6 will return to the island and stay for good. Of course, I've got nothing to back that theory up!

[La Mer]

Even if Locke is really physically dead it doesn't mean that he's 'gone' and we won't see him again..this is Lost afterall

[JNorky]

When Sayid told Hurley that Jeremy Bentham (Locke) was dead, he said that "they called it a suicide". Maybe Widmore's people found Locke and killed him or maybe it was Ben.

[EasyEEE]

im thinking Locke is dead, but in tonights episode the flash forward did not happen in one time line. it was progressive. it ended with 3 years from when they got rescued. so therefore im thinking that the next seasons we will see what happened to Lock and why he was off the island. So im thinking he will back in the 5th and 6th season to show how he got to this point in time which we saw in the funeral home.


Thank you for mentioning Locke is in the coffin THREE YEARS after the rescue.. as Kate mentioned to Jack after she backed up and got out of her car again. I think people are forgetting that fact.

[jetembers]

Was there a scar on locke's eye in the coffin?

[rodova]

I was actually thinking perhaps Sayid killed Locke and made it look like a suicide. Sayid is working for Ben right? Maybe Ben told him to kill him to help convince the others to return to the island. <shrugs> Who knows.... it's a sticky tangled web atm.

[The Ringo]

There's a reason Ben said they need to take Locke back too. Darlton already said Season 5 is about the O6 getting back to the island, and Season 6 is about when they get back to the island. They already said "In the end, Locke will be among the ones who matter most". Locke will be back.

[Steve34436]

I was actually thinking perhaps Sayid killed Locke and made it look like a suicide. Sayid is working for Ben right? Maybe Ben told him to kill him to help convince the others to return to the island. <shrugs> Who knows.... it's a sticky tangled web atm.


I'd say Sayid is more "humoring" him.

[stewpid]

Why did the island let Locke die?

So that the 6 will get motivated to get back. Why does Ben care is the question. He can't go back... Where does his interest play into this?

[peachlily22]

screen cap from darks site

http://bp3.blogger.com/_B7lt2bBReO4/SD9uHbZpZzI/AAAAAAAAACA/14nqfsnphk0/s1600/jeremybentham.jpg

[carsonlss]

Could someone answer the question to weather he had the scar on his face in the coffin?

[patrickgabor]

jeremy bentham was a philosopher that had a very cult following. After he did they stuffed his body put him into a glass box. every year his followers would have an extravagant party with his stuffed body present. this could be a tie in to say that the locke shown dead could be just stuffed look alike or that he is in someway still alive.

[rodova]

If you are speaking of Sayid humoring Ben, I agree totally.

Even without Ben asking, Sayid could have killed Locke to shut him up. He was apparently annoying the crap out of everyone, trying to get them to go back. Then again, maybe he just killed him because he really couldn't stand the guy.

[Thundermatts]

Come on people who think Locke is off the show. You think they'll never pick up at exactly that moment where we see Locke about to get some answers from Richard? Just because it's 07 out there doesn't mean it is on the island, Locke could still be back in 04 on the island and have three good years of story told in flashbacks

[patrickgabor]

the name that they called john was jeremy bentham. He was an 18th century philosopher who had a very cult following. when he did he was stuffed and put to be displayed amoung his followers. they would have a party every year with his stuffed body present.
this could be a hint that the lock in the casket is actually stuffed just how jeremy bentham was. or some kind of clue.

[Sacred Knight]

WOW. This was just...insane.

I can see why lots of Locke fans would be upset. Heck I'm still in shock. But this doesn't for a second mean that we're gonna lose him. Even without the island stories before his death, when his body gets back to the island we're gonna see some craziness. In fact I believe the answer for things like Christian being "alive" on the island is going to be revealed with Locke. He has TONS of story left, try to let that sink in.

[detoxboy]

Could someone answer the question to weather he had the scar on his face in the coffin?

just re watched that part, and i think the scar your thinking about is the one he got from the plane crash, keep in mind that this scene is 3 years after the resuce, and his scar has completely healed

[Sacred Knight]

You can see some remnant of the scar, at least I thought I could. It was hard to tell due to the makeup to make him look pale. Not to mention it looked like some filming trickery or more makeup was employed to make him look bloated.

[Sray92]

I'm quite interested in the LOST storyline, but being at school and such has prevented me from catching about 3/4 of the episodes. As such, if I misunderstand something, feel free to correct me.

When I first started watching LOST, the very first thing I noticed was John Locke's name. John Locke was "was an English philosopher. Locke is considered the first of the British Empiricists, but is equally important to social contract theory. His ideas had enormous influence on the development of epistemology and political philosophy, and he is widely regarded as one of the most influential Enlightenment thinkers and contributors to liberal theory"

I couldn't figure out how that played into the storyline at all, so I thought it a coincidence. But from the latest episode, when Jeremy Bentham is referenced, and is revealed to be Locke, I feel the situation is no longer coincidental. Bentham was " an English jurist, philosopher, and legal and social reformer. He was a political radical, and a leading theorist in Anglo-American philosophy of law. He is best known for his advocacy of utilitarianism, for the concept of animal rights, and his opposition to the idea of natural rights."

John Locke, as I understand him, had a profound impact on the creation of the theory of Natural Rights. And then he is called Bentham, who strongly opposed Natural Rights. Interesting choice of names. Locke and Bentham were born in 1704 and 1748, respectively.

Other interesting names include Jane Austen (Kate's last name) who was an author born in 1775 and Michael Faraday (Daniel's last name) who was an influential chemist and physicist born in 1791.

What's with all the 1700's historical allusions?

[SaintSinner]

Locke's not dead....He's just pining for the fjords!

[Lissbirds]

Locke is in the casket, and he's definitely dead. Some bad things started happening on the island, as we know, and I think he came back to the mainland to try to get the O6 back in order to fix it. And whatever is happening on the island I think has implications for saving the whole world--kind of like pushing the button--and for whatever reason, everyone is needed back to set things straight again.

But, what I'm starting to wonder is--is bringing a dead body to the island the entire catalyst for all these odd things happening? Christian Shepard's body was unintentionally brought to the island, and suddenly his spirit is able to travel around all over and talk to people, communicate with Jacob, etc. What will happen to the island if the island's chosen one--Locke--is brought back to the island, dead? What kind of abilities would he have?

Kind of out there. I also liked someone's suggestion (forgot whose) about the time travel angle, and how everyone would need to be back in order to fix a broken timeline.

[Sacred Knight]

The one thing I can't get out of my head after seeing this is "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." This just totally seems like an Obi-Wan moment. I think Locke either gives his life willingly, or someone does indeed kill him but he lets it happen, knowing it needs to happen. Lost is always taking off old myths and civilizations, and common themes with lots of old civilizations is the idea of sacrificing your mortal live to achieve that of a higher being.

[markdlg]

Once they reach the island-assuming that they do, Locke will come back as some sort of ghost.

[alicetooljam]

The ending and Locke's "death" was surprising, BUT anticlimatic after thinking about it....Its gets the immediate shock value because they just killed off a MAJOR character, BUT....theres no need to freak about this. It could take ALL of next season to show how Locke ended up this way...THEN still have Locke be part of the regular cast the final season as a ghost/guide....OR he could just wake up when being returned to the island...why would he HAVE to go back as well? DEAD or NOT DEAD we are far from seeing the last of Locke...

[markdlg]

Locke drives alot of the story.

He can't be dead.

[EasyEight]

Holy cow, I'm just stunned by this one.

[Gale243]

I don't think Locke is dead... my mom is really really upset right now. I like your guys idieas though, they sound reasonable.

[PARANOID]

That was very surprising. I had suspicions that it was him, but I did not think the writers would really kill him.

[white_mouse]

In terms of some of the questions as to whether he died on or off the island... Jack and Ben's conversation clearly leads you to believe that Locke was off the island for at least a month trying to convince everyone to go back to the island. He obviously used an alias to cover the fact that another oceanic flight survivor was walking around. Locke also knew that Ben was off the island... since he passed that info onto Jack ,, so Locke and Ben must have talked before his death.. or before he talked to Jack.

Remember.. Ben always has a plan....

-points dramatically-
I am so on the same page here! Ben always has a plan. and if you don't believe him you get his ZOMFG are you seriously asking me that!? face we saw in the ep before the season finale. That... is like my fav face ever. It totally saved the episiode for me.


ON a side note I think we should all keep in mind that death is not the same on the island, or for people connected to it, as shown via all the dead people we keep seeing and the chess game hurley played with Eko.

Who I must say is taking his "i see dead people" situation much better now

[Kawalsky]

My guess is ....just like what happened to ben having to move the island something bad happened that maybe Locke had to move the island again and then leaves the island just like Ben

This sounds like what could have happened to me. good idea.

[white_mouse]

I'm quite interested in the LOST storyline, but being at school and such has prevented me from catching about 3/4 of the episodes. As such, if I misunderstand something, feel free to correct me.

When I first started watching LOST, the very first thing I noticed was John Locke's name. John Locke was "was an English philosopher. Locke is considered the first of the British Empiricists, but is equally important to social contract theory. His ideas had enormous influence on the development of epistemology and political philosophy, and he is widely regarded as one of the most influential Enlightenment thinkers and contributors to liberal theory"

I couldn't figure out how that played into the storyline at all, so I thought it a coincidence. But from the latest episode, when Jeremy Bentham is referenced, and is revealed to be Locke, I feel the situation is no longer coincidental. Bentham was " an English jurist, philosopher, and legal and social reformer. He was a political radical, and a leading theorist in Anglo-American philosophy of law. He is best known for his advocacy of utilitarianism, for the concept of animal rights, and his opposition to the idea of natural rights."

John Locke, as I understand him, had a profound impact on the creation of the theory of Natural Rights. And then he is called Bentham, who strongly opposed Natural Rights. Interesting choice of names. Locke and Bentham were born in 1704 and 1748, respectively.

Other interesting names include Jane Austen (Kate's last name) who was an author born in 1775 and Michael Faraday (Daniel's last name) who was an influential chemist and physicist born in 1791.

What's with all the 1700's historical allusions?


Bravo! I hadn't taken the time to look up the names and such but after reading your post that gives us some very interesting insight into just what might happen and since Locke and Bentham are so ..hmm.. confrontational? opposed? i bet there just might be some internal conflict for Locke. Maybe once he finds out what Richard and the others know? Once he is leader of the others for a while?

All the 18th century allusions are fun to muse upon. I wonder if the writers used any of Austen's novels for her personality. Or just the fact that Jane was a woman writer (independent for her time) and the fact that Kate will NEVER effin listen to other people. shesh.

[Kawalsky]

I was wondering at the end of the show... why would the island want Locke's corpse if he is dead. anyone have any thoughts on this? Im Hoping this will somehow lead to him coming back to life... but im not sure how this would work.

[the odi]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/anil31/lost/season%204/jeremybentham.jpg (http://the-odi.blogspot.com/2008/05/episode-4x13-jeremy-bentham-aka-john.html)

[*Pauly*]

Well Terry will be back next season for sure but I reckon he won't be in season 6 now :/ Real shame would have liked for him to make it to the end.

[TheIslandToldMe]

even with locke dead, we still have all of next season for them to explain what happened between when they moved the island and when locke ended up in the coffin...so we'll probably still see plenty of locke. if next season is the final season, it will be pretty much the same as if he died near the end of the entire show.

[kimberwyn]

I guess Im the only one who wasnt stunned? At the end of the last season we ALL speculated it would be one of 3 people....Michael, Ben or Locke. It couldnt have been anyone else then and by the end of the episode we had narrowed it down even more lol.

Maybe Locke had to move the island again? And thats how he got off, and then he died or someone killed him.

[Holy_Bum]

I may be on a completely wrong track here, but from the way Sayid says "they're saying it was a suicide" it made me think that he killed him.

If Sayid is still working for Ben, and Ben wants to kill Locke to eliminate his rival for Jacob's favor on the island, this would make sense.

Again, this could be completely off, but the first thing that popped into my head, before I knew who Jeremy B___ (forget his name) was that Sayid killed him when he says that they're saying it was a suicide.

Thoughts?

[sammantha]

I don't believe! I won't believe it!
clearly, this is some form of denial..

I'd like to know what's up with the Bentham cover? Did John get off the island and adopt this name so he would not be found? Even more confusing is the fact that no one wanted to see John aside from Jack (i'm referring to the actual service occurring in the past season). Jack would be the last person I would have thought to arrive at John's funeral. All joking aside.. i do believe this has to be our John Locke, despite the different name. Ben clearly told Jack that they ALL had to return to the island, including the body in the casket. So whoever was in the casket clearly had to have been on the island on some point. Unless there was some Locke doppelganger/twin running around the island, then we are going to have to assume this is our Locke. :( Quite a shame too. he was my favorite character for the longest time, started to irritate me for a bit, but then really started to redeem himself this season.

[brandita]

When Sayid told Hurley that Jeremy Bentham (Locke) was dead, he said that "they called it a suicide". Maybe Widmore's people found Locke and killed him or maybe it was Ben.

I think that this line is very important. It seemed that they had known Locke's life was in danger. It seemed that he had visited all of them as well. I guessing meaning that he had been back for some time.

[white_mouse]

I don't believe! I won't believe it!
clearly, this is some form of denial..

I'd like to know what's up with the Bentham cover? Did John get off the island and adopt this name so he would not be found? Even more confusing is the fact that no one wanted to see John aside from Jack (i'm referring to the actual service occurring in the past season). Jack would be the last person I would have thought to arrive at John's funeral. All joking aside.. i do believe this has to be our John Locke, despite the different name. Ben clearly told Jack that they ALL had to return to the island, including the body in the casket. So whoever was in the casket clearly had to have been on the island on some point. Unless there was some Locke doppelganger/twin running around the island, then we are going to have to assume this is our Locke. :( Quite a shame too. he was my favorite character for the longest time, started to irritate me for a bit, but then really started to redeem himself this season.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread, and I agree with this. That if John was going around saying that he was John... everyone would have been like WTF more people from the airline!? and it would have opened public investigation to find the island again. Which, no matter what John got off the island for, is not something he (or the island) would want.

Locke warned Jack that if he got of the island the knowledge of it would start to eat him alive. In the flashforwards we see clearly Jack is having some serious issues. Something causes him to go deep end and It is my personal guess that he thinks getting back to the island is the way to solve his problems. To absolve himself to the guilt for whatever happen that he thinks is his fault.

I really doubt cloning is one of the experiments the DI had going. That's seems pretty tame for their reach of things. Sadly john lock is dead as the picture previous proves from the episode.

BUT as I said in here once before. Death is not the same to or on the island. Clearly.

[robyourvirginity]

im thinking that locke may be dead but since he has some kind of connection to the island (which we may have learned in cabin fever), his body can come back to the island and still seem to exist. Maybe CS has some tie to the island and that is why he seems to be existing on the island, maybe thats the real reason the plane even crashed. Maybe if Locke's body gets back to the island, he will be part of the jacob/CS team, that way they can keep his character alive and not piss off all of the Locke fans

[white_mouse]

I think that this line is very important. It seemed that they had known Locke's life was in danger. It seemed that he had visited all of them as well. I guessing meaning that he had been back for some time.

I wonder if that has anything to do with Sun and her offering to strike up a bargin with Widmore (names are horrible for me sorry)

Seems like if he went to see all of them Sun would be no different.

John is the only of them that actually knows where the island is Widmore could have wanted the info. Locke said no. And then dead locke.

Of course the order of people he saw is really unknown.

[Sacred Knight]

Any suspects? If he didn't really kill himself of course as Sayid seems to believe.

Me, I'm going with Matthew Abbadon. He returns to collect on the favor he believes Locke owes him. Locke rejects him (and as such rejects evil), and he's killed by Abbadon for the refusal. But it bites him and Widmore in the ass bigtime.

[white_mouse]

Any suspects? If he didn't really kill himself of course as Sayid seems to believe.

Me, I'm going with Matthew Abbadon. He returns to collect on the favor he believes Locke owes him. Locke rejects him (and as such rejects evil), and he's killed by Abbadon for the refusal. But it bites him and Widmore in the ass bigtime.

I would need some serious convincing to believe that Locke killed himself. Of everything we know of John that seems like the last thing he would do to me. Though it is the typical cover up excuse.

In the way of suspects I am empty handed, sadly. Though yours seems like it would be a good one to follow along.

[bigstick61]

I doubt it. I think that Widmore & co. found out about Locke somehow, maybe due to the fact that men were spying on the survivors, and then they killed him, making it look like a suicide, which would be enough to make Sayid worry.

[ElessarUSMC]

Bah, he'll come back to life on the island.

[Stinkyf1re]

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn28/felashoes/weekend.jpg

[Eksynyt]

LOL that is hilarious!!! There's no way Locke won't be in the last two seasons. He is arguably the most important character on the show as I have said from the very beginning.

[RonZero1979]

Lock never wanted to go back o the MAIN LAND. He does not have to be on the ISLAND PHYSICALLY, his SPIRIT can still lead the OTHERS just like JACOB.

[anthortic]

Why would you be reading a forum post on something that happened in the ep. if you haven't seen it? Setting yourself up, aren't you?

agreed

[karhar]

I too was shocked by the ending of Lost last night and Locke being in the casket.

Although Ben destroyed the time travel machine with all the metal. I still go back to the training video of the Orchid. What is more interesting is that on www.ctv.ca on the missing pieces they showed more of what really happened in the training video vs what was on the show last night.

The rabbit #15 was a duplicate and not the real #15. If you get a chance to watch the video you will see it is time travel in that one body remains and the other travels. As the doctor was shocked to see #15 reappear behind him and said " Don't let them see each other" I think that the John Locke in the casket isn't the real John Locke. just my opinion. But in order to complete the time travel needs his other self to return. ie Half dead.

Just a thought and would be a very clearly wicked way to bring him back into the show.:confused:

:D Sorry in an earlier post I said it was ctv.ca but it was you tube I saw the real dharma training video for the orchid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI

Tell me what you think.

[Damtix]

Maybe the island told John to get the people back at any cost, so he thought the best way of doing it was by committing suicide...

[slickrick622]

Hahaha - man, you guys are quick with the Photoshop... brilliant.

But Locke will definitely come back - you don't kill off your only Emmy winner IMO. Just based on the fact that we have seen numerous "dead" characters come back (Shannon's brother, Christian, Charlie, Eko apparently) - he will be back once the body gets to the island.

Also - when 815 crashes - Christian's body is on the plane. And then, coincidentally, who becomes alive on the island? ... It must be that the island needs the physical body in order for the person to actually come back to life.

[wischr]

I think Locke is still going to be in the show in some way. the producers have said that the next season is about "why they need to get back" my bet is that the show will take place in 2007 and they will go back to the old-school Flash-Back format to show what happend and john will be in ALOT of that


Well why wouldn't he be? We already suspected that the Jack/Kate "we have to go back" scene was the further in the future flash-forward and now we get confirmation. The next season will pick up immediately after the rescue and will follow Locke on the island from that point forward - there's no reason to believe that they will skip as far ahead as the flash forward point.

[JoePresentsWTF]

Logically, he must have died off the island, as it says in the episodes that he came and talked to each of the survivors. But how did he get off the island, and why when he's supposed to be the new leader?

[pshkbb]

Maybe they need to bring Locke's body back to the island so tat he can become the new Jacob. I am guessing that when Jack brought his father to the island (and maybe it is something about arriving there DOA) Jacob was able to use his "body" or identity when showing himself (maybe he needs the bodies to regenerate as when we first saw him from behind it seemed as tho he was REALLY old) and he did ask Locke to help him. Odd theory but who knows.

[ph33r^]

I don't know why everyone is so sad to see him gone. I'm sure we're not actually going to get back to that point in time until the end of the show... or at least until the end of the next season. I think next season will show the people on the island (Locke included), and the people off the island at about the same time frame as when Jack and the others just got off the island. So we've still got a lot of Locke left... although we do know that he probably dies eventually :p

[olemed]

The casket was a regular size casket in my eyes. Not sure why people were/are saying it's smaller. I used to work in a funeral home and generally there are only a few sizes; child, regular, large, extra large and that's pretty much it. Locke was in a regular size casket. The average length of a casket is 84 inches; width 28 inches, and height 23 inches.

[proevoman]

I'm thinking that locke isn't dead. My main reasoning behind this is that ben told jack to bring the body with them. This wont be the case with michael though as the island let him go (when christian told him he could go), so it would be pointless to take locke's body to the island if he was dead, he would be of no use. The island must need him if it is to be returned to its normal state. Whether he returns in a physical state or a spiritual state is the the only question in my mind.

Another question is that due to the original losties all having to go back to the island, does this mean we are gonna be seeing more of walt?

[johnny_sack]

Although Ben destroyed the time travel machine with all the metal. I still go back to the training video of the Orchid. What is more interesting is that on www.ctv.ca on the missing pieces they showed more of what really happened in the training video vs what was on the show last night.

I disagree that he destroyed it - clearly this is NOT the first time the island has been moved, and so someone has done this before. That would also explain how Ben knew how to do it, and how he knew that he would have to leave the island himself if he did it.

I think that Widmore and Ben were on the island together at one point, and that Ben tricked widmore into moving the island and leaving himself, thus taking his place.

Now John takes Ben's place. I think it's a cycle of island "owners" if you will.

[sarabell]

The casket was a regular size casket in my eyes. Not sure why people were/are saying it's smaller. I used to work in a funeral home and generally there are only a few sizes; child, regular, large, extra large and that's pretty much it. Locke was in a regular size casket. The average length of a casket is 84 inches; width 28 inches, and height 23 inches.

I was just going to ask that. I'm thinking surely they don't use a coffin cut in half for someone with no legs-- I'd think they would just leave the empty space for legs, and have a normal coffin, no?
(and this episode successfully blew me away, so that's really my only notable input, anywhere. :tiphat:)

[Glavin]

It was a clone, or atleast thats what i think. The only station we didn't visit on the show was The Orchid station, the one with the tape of the two bunnies. Along with making a Time machine, they created a Cloning machine to deal with the fact they can't reproduce on the island. This is why Richard has looked the same age all these years, there just clones

I like this point, this seems VERY plausable.

(I've been reading this forum for awhile, but just finally got the nerves to post, dont be too harsh :shock:)

-The Glavin

[Indy]

We have learned, that Locke would do anything to fullfill the bidding of the island.
Now the island wanted back the Oceanic 6. Locke left the island and tried to convince them to come back, without success. Beeing some sort of new leader tho the others, maybe he always has a plan like Ben. So he put the islands will before his own and took his life so the O6 would go back to the island...
If he succeeds, maybe the islands thanks him, in reviving him.

[ianlou0203]

I was thinking that same thing, that Locke was off the island to get them to return. However, I feel that Locke left that island at a great sacrafice, knowing that he would never return. He died for the Island! Locke will be missed :(

[ianlou0203]

Ben told Locke that when he went to lead the others they would tell him everything.... So Locke finds out what is really going on and feels he needs to go warn Jack and the rest who left the Island.

Of course Locke has to use an alias (he's the one who told Jack they'd have to lie once they got back to civilization). He goes to Jack and the rest of the 6 and tries to convince them of the truth (what he learned from the others) and no one wants to go along with him and in the meantime somebody offs him.

That's what I am thinking at this point anyway.

First they have to fight to get off the dang Island and now they'll all be fighting to get back to it.

Love this show!

This is what I was talking about!! To early :)!!

I don't believe! I won't believe it!
clearly, this is some form of denial..

I'd like to know what's up with the Bentham cover? Did John get off the island and adopt this name so he would not be found? Even more confusing is the fact that no one wanted to see John aside from Jack (i'm referring to the actual service occurring in the past season). Jack would be the last person I would have thought to arrive at John's funeral. All joking aside.. i do believe this has to be our John Locke, despite the different name. Ben clearly told Jack that they ALL had to return to the island, including the body in the casket. So whoever was in the casket clearly had to have been on the island on some point. Unless there was some Locke doppelganger/twin running around the island, then we are going to have to assume this is our Locke. :( Quite a shame too. he was my favorite character for the longest time, started to irritate me for a bit, but then really started to redeem himself this season.

Does this mean Walt needs to come with them too?

[princessbrat17]

I think it's like a Spock thing from Star Trek. He'll get back to the island and come alive. He had visited several of the "6" and told them to come back right?? Maybe the island needs Aaron for some reason. I think Jack/Claire's father is somehow/ or is related to Jacob. I just can't figure out the name change??

[chelseafan]

LOCKE IS DEAD.

Ha ha the coffin scene was him..I honestly thought it was Ben untill he showed..up still didn't think it was Locke untill they showed him. What a great scene.

It'll be interesting to find out what has happened,should be immense stuff.
I'm just glad Ben is still alive,what a man.

[Metabee]

Good call.

Although I still can't believe that it's him in the casket. I guess I'm in sort of a state of shock/denial right now.

I'm hoping that once they all eventually make it back to the island (hopefully) some sort of giant awesome-gasm will bring him back to life.Haha, denial is exactly how I'm feeling now. THEY CAN'T KILL OF LOCKE, HE'S STILL GOOD, HE'S STILL GOOD!

But it looked like he was kind of chopped in half...

[JStew]

Question is how did Lockes body get there? And how do the Oceanic 6 know its him if his death is filed under a different name?
ALSO SOMETHNG TO LOOK FORWARD TO.... If everyone has to go back to the island then Locke does too.... meaning he could have life on the Island. Maybe this is what was meant when "bad things will happen if you leave the island". It might be a hint that no one will be there to take over the island.They come back > he comes back. Besides there was way to much going on with his character to not have him back next season with an even bigger part... we found out he really does care about the other survivors and wants the best for them. To me he is the best hearted person there.

[JennyLC]

Although this is a story where it's not out of the question that a dead body can be faked (an entire plane load of people was faked, ahem), I do think he's dead.

But, there are still nearly 3 years of story to tell, so of course it's not the last we see of Locke.

It could be suicide - it would be sad of course, but look at Locke's life history. He's been a loser all his life, and then he is left with the island, and is apparently going to screw things up quite a bit. We saw very clearly in the last few eps how ill-prepared he is for his new role. Even if Richard tells him everything, he still lacks leadership skills, not to mention Ben's persuasive and manipulative masteries, nor does he *ever* have a plan. Chaos will ensue!

Obviously he was using a pseud to hide who he really is to the world, but the bigger question is, why did all the Losties adopt it as well? You'd think that amongst themselves, they'd still refer to him as Locke.

And finally, I think I know why Ben wants to bring the body back. Classic strategy when seizing - or re-seizing - power - you have to prove to the people that their former leader is truly dead.

[crawfish]

It doesn't surprise me at all that Locke doesn't survive the end...but, given the show's time manipulation, do we really know WHEN the dead Locke is from? If the dead doctor can wash ashore while he's on the island, then can't the dead lock appear before he dies ON the island?

[Mizuchi]

remember, the FF with locke dead is 3 years later.
my guess is that locke moves the island again.

sorry if this has been said already.

[trader4300]

Yes, apparently Locke visited both Jack and Kate before he died, so now everyone is wondering HOW did he die? Possibly Jack killed him like he said he would. maybe this is why Jack is having troubles living with himself, all stoned all the time. Was it Locke who was living with Kate????? Remember when Kate said "I have to get back, he's waiting for me"??? Well, now we know it isn't Sawyer. Could it have been Locke?

[BoyesyBhoy]

Dead or not?
I think he really is dead. When Sayid is talking to Hurey about paranoia, etc, it suggests to me that there are people who know there were more survivors (I'm guessing that this is after Sun and Widmore met - Sun would have told Widmore a lot of info because she blames Jack for Jin's "death") - so somebody has confronted "Bentham", knowing exactly who he really is, and killed him. Like Sayid says, "they say it was a suicide" - if Widmore can fake a plane crash with 200-odd dead bodies, then he can sure as hell fake a man's suicide.

How did he get back to 2007?
I reckon Locke had to move the Island again. Jack said to Ben that when he spoke to Bentham, he was told that "bad things happened to the Island when we left" (I'm just paraphrasing, I dunno the exact quote) - this would suggest that the Island was put at danger again, just like when Ben moved it and, like Ben, Locke couldn't return which would explain why he was on the mainland.


That's my take on it, anyway. We can only wait and see...

[Lewb]

Im 99% sure Locke will still be a major part until the end of the series.. I think this is all part of the islands plan to prove Locke is really the chosen one. Jack originally landed on the island with Christian in a coffin, who was resurrected, and now he must do the same for Locke.

Ben does not care that Locke is dead because he knows he will be alive once he reaches the island again.

Either this or Locke has some huge conflict with the island.. and it removes all his power and the ability to walk, so he somehow gets to the mainland and kills himself. But I doubt that would happen.

Jack knows who Locke is even though he is using an alias as Locke has been talking to all of the O6 trying to recruit them into going back to the island, he phoned Kate, went to see Walt, talked to Hurley etc.

[ABQPaladin]

The use of Jeremy Bentham as an alias for John Locke may or may not have a bearing on this situation. In true "Lost" fashion there is reference to a historical name from the past. Jeremy Bentham was a philosipher with many ideas accredited to him that may be twisted into supporting the thoughts and actions of John Locke. But something mentioned on another website made me wonder ...............

According to wikipedia, Jeremy Bentham had his body preserved and placed in a case for viewing, still in place today. However, the head is wax, not the real head. So - not the real John Locke in the coffin!

[pshkbb]

to be honest - if things went horribly wrong on the island - Locke is the kind of guy to blame himself (starting with the ship exploding and killing all on board) - if he angered the island and somehow lost the use of his legs again - he might very well want to kill himself - especially if he thought it was the only way he could get everyone back to the island - sacrificing himself for the good of others.

[BattleRoyale]

To bring Locke back means he might be resurrected on the island.

The island does have healing powers

Anyway, that's the only way I can get around it. Otherwise they'd be bringing a corpse with them everywhere.

[timeflux]

Well he dies on the island when exploding stuff. Wouldn't that be fun to watch?

[NBJosh]

First I think that the reason why Locke changed his name was so that he wouldn't be reckonized by anybody who he didn't want to reckonize him, including Widemore's people. I assume that Widemore's people found him and killed him like they had been doing to Ben's people.

As for the reason why Jack was the only person who showed up at his visitation. It seems that he scared everyone except Jack. Sayid woundn't even say his name and Hurley and Kate wouldn't talk about him either. As soon as Jack mentioned Bentham to Kate at the airport she drove off on him. Jack is the only one who wants to get back to the island so he is the only one who showed up at Bentham's visitation. I assume that Ben was following Jack knowing that he would visit the funeral home for one reason or another.

[musick]

I think the best theory (and it has been noted here) is buried in the hidden orchid video that is on Season 3 DVD as an easter egg and on the web. It is significant that when Locke is watching the training video, the tape starts to malfunction, thus leaving out the most important detail of the cloning and the time machine. (the writers way of dropping a clue to, pretty obvious)

But if you have seen the other part to the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI) when the rabbit jumps in time, it shows very clearly TWO rabbits and the guys in the video are freaking out saying don't let them see each other. So obviously there can be 2 Locke's. That opens a ton of outlets on why "one of the Locke's" is in that coffin.

[108_Minutes]

Since Widmore wants to know where the island is, perhaps he somehow lured Locke off of the island to get this info out of him? In the same way Keamy tried to get it out of Ben for Widmore? And, in an effort to keep the island secret, Locke's death is faked?

Maybe the O6 + Locke then have to go back to the island to hide from Widmore. With Locke 'dead', Widmore may try to get info out of one of the survivors. Thoughts, anyone? :)

With that said, I do think the 'two Locke's' theory is possible, too. Widmore would think Locke is dead now, and think he can't get to the island anymore. Meanwhile, Locke #1 is still very much alive on the island.

[dann]

I'm thinking when they bring lock back to the Island he comes back to life.

[mww911]

I thought it was him by the fact no one attended the viewing except Jack.

[Islington]

I disagree that he destroyed it - clearly this is NOT the first time the island has been moved, and so someone has done this before. That would also explain how Ben knew how to do it, and how he knew that he would have to leave the island himself if he did it.

I think that Widmore and Ben were on the island together at one point, and that Ben tricked widmore into moving the island and leaving himself, thus taking his place.

Now John takes Ben's place. I think it's a cycle of island "owners" if you will.

I really like this idea. It would also leave some interesting things to speculate about in regard to the Widmore/Hanso connection.

[abblette]

:jawdrop: Im soooo shocked!! I mean Locke was beginning to grow on me, but why did he have another name? Was that the name he was using whilst off the island as a cover like Walt and Micheal had?

[DriveShaft-Pace]

Well, there are alot of theries here and the problem is, is that most of them can be the true reason for what's happening. Can anyone post a pic of the coffin? I didn't notice last night that it was "smaller than a normal coffin" like some have stated.
I think that the dead Lock is a clone and they need to go back to the island to stop the real Locke from duplicating everyone from left behind dna to help populate the island. Thoughts?
The name change I believe like others here, is to not draw attention to himself off the island. Remember, Ben was coming and going off the island on a regular basis according to the flash backs from S3 & S4. And he got off the island to meet Jack in the funeral home? He has a way and I think he wants his island back from Locke, another reason everyone needs to go back.

[nonick37]

According to wikipedia, Jeremy Bentham had his body preserved and placed in a case for viewing, still in place today. However, the head is wax, not the real head. So - not the real John Locke in the coffin![/QUOTE]

Or you could say, a man with the body of john locke, and the head/brain of someone else.. Jak.. ?

[abblette]

Hmm, I dont know, I feel certain its locke, but then again I have tiny doubts in the fact they all call him Jeremy Bentham, but then again they are all lying in the first place

[8ulletproof]

why didnt "dead locke" have his notorious eye scar? :shock:

[Dugald]

The last time a coffin arrived on the Island, its contents promptly disappeared and have since been observed on numerous occasions walking around. I wouldn't worry much about whether or not we'll be seeing more of Locke.

[Celeon999]

I think the best theory (and it has been noted here) is buried in the hidden orchid video that is on Season 3 DVD as an easter egg and on the web. It is significant that when Locke is watching the training video, the tape starts to malfunction, thus leaving out the most important detail of the cloning and the time machine. (the writers way of dropping a clue to, pretty obvious)

But if you have seen the other part to the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI) when the rabbit jumps in time, it shows very clearly TWO rabbits and the guys in the video are freaking out saying don't let them see each other. So obviously there can be 2 Locke's. That opens a ton of outlets on why "one of the Locke's" is in that coffin.


John Locke x2 ?

I like that theory...

I cannot believe that they really killed John Locke off..

[elleesa]

I was fairly sure it was Locke in the coffin because there were only 3 people Jack would describe as not a friend or Kate wouldn’t care about- Ben, Locke and Michael. And with Michael on the freighter and Ben alive recruiting Sayid, that left Locke.

Kate, Jack and Hurley all said “Jeremy Bentham” had come to visit them, so Locke could get off the island- probably like Ben used to be able to. Ben had all sorts of passports and foreign money, and as the new leader of the Others, Locke would have the same privileges.

When Jack sees Locke in the coffin it’s 3 years in the future- it’s now. So Locke has 3 years (at least another season) to lead the Others, have “bad stuff” happen to him, go find the Oceanic 6 and die.

And Stinkyfire, your Lost version of Weekend at Bernie’s is hilarious.

[white_mouse]

Would this be a good time to point out that there were TWO OTHER alternate endings of people in the coffin?

Sawyer and Desmond were the other endings.

I was informed of this earlier and the endings were shown on good morning America. I bet they are one youtube somewhere by now.


Any way. death of character does not equal DEATH of character as we are all .. or should be well aware of.

[GaryOR-LFC]

My God! :shock:

[Kadonnut]

I think Sun helped Mr. Widmore find the island again and Locke had to move it. Locke found out he can't go back to the island when he is alive but if he dies and his body gets back his spirit will "live" on the island. So he spinned the wheel, teleported, visited O6 members and then committed a suicide.

[GhostBusterDan]

I cant believe he dead... i wont believe it til i see the dets. bout season 5...

[TheGunslingerX]

BTW, I really don't think the other rabbit in the Orchid video was a clone. Seemed to me that the rabbit had been transported back in time, probably just a matter of minutes, and encountered itself appearing to be a replica. How else woud it just appear on the shelf like that? Sounds more like the effects of time travel rather than cloning.

[Donnie Darko]

I think he was faking and snuck from the Island on the casket.

[GizmoTheFFF]

He will be Resurrected in some form.

Either back to life (Time Paradox Fixing itself ect)

Or in the Spiritual sense.

Come on.

HE'S LOCKE!

[KAHANA]

I just had a thought. Suppose the island was moved in time. john would move in time with the island. maybe off the island he is dead b/c of time difference but he is alive on island in the island time?? :confused:

This whole time thingy is spinning my brain

[enXyme]

According to wikipedia, Jeremy Bentham had his body preserved and placed in a case for viewing, still in place today. However, the head is wax, not the real head. So - not the real John Locke in the coffin!

Or you could say, a man with the body of john locke, and the head/brain of someone else.. Jak.. ?[/QUOTE]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but jeremy bentham was a famous 18th century English philosopher (who had his body preserved after death). The same goes for John Locke, who was also an 17th century English philosopher and Empiricist. (Wikipedia them to find information on their work if you are curious.)

I can't speculate as to the reason why John seems to be named after 2 different English philosophers. Anyone care to suggest?

[crozier13]

you have to remember that kate told Jack when they were talking that it had been 3 years since they left the island. Then when jack was at the funeral parlor he told Ben that Locke had visited him last month and told him that things had gone wrong on the island and it was Jacks fault. So that leaves a period of almost 3 years that Locke was on the Island before he somehow got thrown back to the city. I believe that locke had to move the island again and it cast him off the island and he couldnt take it. Jack said that Locke reportadly committed suicide. Just my guess. So Locke could still have lots of action in that 3 year period.

[Paladar]

Wouldn't it have been cool if when the camera was slowing panning over to the coffin to finally reveal who it was that you heard Michael Jackson's Thriller play in the background?

[crozier13]

Kate told Jack that it had been 3 years since they left the island. Jack told Ben that Locke had visited him last month. So that leaves 3 years that Locke was on the Island. He will still have plenty of screen time. I think Locke ends up moving the island himself again and he gets zapped off the island like Ben, and he cant take it. Jack said it was a reported suicide

[The Ringo]

Im 99% sure Locke will still be a major part until the end of the series.. I think this is all part of the islands plan to prove Locke is really the chosen one. Jack originally landed on the island with Christian in a coffin, who was resurrected, and now he must do the same for Locke.

I'm 100% sure based on Darlton's quotes.

[craic]

maybe locke isn't dead and he got one of those spiders that bit nikki and paulo to bite him and make him appear dead to convince the O6 to get back to the island :shifty:

[KAHANA]

maybe locke isn't dead and he got one of those spiders that bit nikki and paulo to bite him and make him appear dead to convince the O6 to get back to the island :shifty:

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

[Paladar]

Think he's just feigning sleep. So when Jack goes to pick him up to take him to the island, Locke jumps up with both hands reaching in claws " RAAAAARRRR! " Jack feints and wakes up in episode 1 season 1 on his back in a suit in the jungle......

the cycle continues....

[pshkbb]

ok 2 things -

1. why do you guys keep suggesting that the rabbit is cloned when the video and ben clearly say time traveling - which means SAME rabbit just in two "times" and if the rabbit met itself it would cause immediate death for said rabbit. if the rabbit were cloned meeting itself would be no big deal as it would be two different (albeit identical) beings.

2. maybe the island was done with locke and needed him to get Aaron back as we do not know who the leader prior to Ben was but here is a numbers theory:

3 letters - Ben
4 letters - John
5 letters - Aaron

just a guess as they also looked at Walt (4 letters) but let him go - maybe he was too young or just not suitable......

[L0STinNorth]

Come on, he's not really dead. Locke's not in LOST anymore? That's absurd. Even if he's "dead" he'll be in the show. That whole time travel thing is just messing with us.

[ImSoLost]

What episode was it that showed the Obit in the paper? I can't remember if it said how he died?

craic: "maybe locke isn't dead and he got one of those spiders that bit nikki and paulo to bite him and make him appear dead to convince the O6 to get back to the island ." LOL that's a good one, "par---a---lized." :)

[sammantha]

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread, and I agree with this. That if John was going around saying that he was John... everyone would have been like WTF more people from the airline!? and it would have opened public investigation to find the island again. Which, no matter what John got off the island for, is not something he (or the island) would want.

mmmmmm, good point. i forgot about this entirely.

[kivila]

Poor John, he never got the chance to be truly happy.

He was abandoned by him mom, he grew up in foster care, he accidentally betrayed the only people that cared for him, his mom betrayed him, his dad smurfed him up, his girlfrind left him because he was still obsessed with his dad, then he tried to kill him and left him paralized instead, he crashes on the worst island anybody can even land on, when his finally finds a place where he felt he belonged, "bad things started to happen", when he tries to stop those bad things by trying to convince O6 to go back, they don't believe him and probably tell him to smurf off. Finally he dies.

Poor John :(

Smurf??? Fine, Smurf = the f word



Yeah, his life was realy "MISERABLE"

[NotoriousFIQ]

The writers had kept the dead-person-in-coffin secret for so long (1 season).
Meaning it is such a big event/deal, so I dont think it would be a trick saying "maybe Locke is still alive" ..cuz then whats the point of the long kept secret?

whether he will be "resurrected".. for me its possible. But not alive and well sorta, instead, Christian sorta..

[romszone_com]

Well I was very wrong, at the end of last Last season I said Locke is the one person it would not be in the coffin.


I never would of thought lock would have been in that casket. you think he will be brought back to life on the island? I wonder how he even ended up off the island to have a funeral in the first place. they moved the island and still bad things happened.

That is what I think, or at least hope.

[Liam]

To be honest.. him dead didn't really affect me. I don't like him that much.. but I suppose it's going to be a big part of the story line.

[Weakling_Child]

I thought I remembered a book I read about Benthem, but it's another first name (Johan instead of Jeremy, same first Letter, both J. Benthem). Maybe a hint to the book, called "The logic of time"?
http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Time-Model-Theoretic-Investigation-Varieties/dp/0792310810

[Steve34436]

Hey the coffin we saw at the end of season 3 isn't the one we saw in season 4. What I do think is funny is that I am willing to bet that the season 3 coffin has someone diffrent in it. I mean "time travel" seems to be possible on the island, so whats a night or two in a funeral parlor going to mean? I just think that everyone wanted ben to be there for the "wake."

[charming_Nicole]

I found it really weird that they all called him Jermey. It's like they never have met Locke. It's weird..

[NotoriousFIQ]

^ probably just for the sake of the final "shocking" revealing scene.. :)
I mean if Hurley said his name that time..we would be "uh-huh" at the end.. :D

[charming_Nicole]

Yeah but still I think there's more into it. Locke could have introduced himself als Jermey but still they would have called him Locke. Kate know's that Sawyers real name is James but still she calling him Sawyer. Darlton always have reason for these kind of things. They did not only came up with the name and them calling that name if it was just for the shocking end.

[NotoriousFIQ]

okay..
but i can't think of any other reason.. i mean..Jeremy/Locke is the same person..
I think we shouldn't be asking why they call him Jeremy Bentham instead of Locke.
I think a better question would be; Why "Jeremy Bentham"?

[Rizzler]

okay..
but i can't think of any other reason.. i mean..Jeremy/Locke is the same person..
I think we shouldn't be asking why they call him Jeremy Bentham instead of Locke.
I think a better question would be; Why "Jeremy Bentham"?

as so many other's tryed to state, cant it be a married brother ?

[Found1985]

I am very upset that it was Locke in the coffin. As Kate said, there was a gap of three years between them leaving the island and Jack going to Locke's coffin. I very much hope that the remaining two-or-three seasons will explain what happened in those three years, and whether they do return to the island and what happens.

[Boring8Man]

The question is why Locke moved the island onece again?
Those "bad things happend" mentioned by Ben are very intriguing.
The island can be anywhere in time (some theories asys that is has been moved to time where the Dharma people lived on the island,bu t who knows).
One thing is sure some really serious stuff happend if Locke decided to be exiled from the island.

And a question that bothers me is who was moved along with the island?
What area has been moved:TheHydra for sure,what about Daniel? He was on the boat with some people.
Mayby everyting what was in the water (including the frighter,Daniel's boat) ,everything which is considered to be in"the island area". But chooper wasn't.

And I don't think the chopper dudes were able to see the wreckage of the frighter after is was blown, the smoke,anything?

[BOONE182]

amazing, no idea what happened here, that coffin scene was great, i jumped!

[NotoriousFIQ]

as so many other's tryed to state, cant it be a married brother ?

i assume you're trying to make a joke here dude.. so lemme give u a laugh..ha..ha.. :bounce::bounce:

[keithmoon66]

The 'Jeremy Fentham' in the coffin may be just like the Jeremy Fentham in UCL University. I mean a real body but wax head.

Cos John's head did look a bit waxy didnt it.

He may be still alive who knows

[ynell]

all in all, the island wont let Locke actually die since it's ever so obvious that Locke is 'destined' to play a major role on the island for probably the remainder of the show

as to why he's in the casket.. i've no idea o.O

just in my point of view, no matter what happens, Locke isn't out of the picture what so ever

[ACASTARS]

Lock will realive when he get back to island. so they have to took John because all has to come back including aeron but clare told kate not to bring him back to island.

[keithmoon66]

jeremy bentham was a philosopher whos body is on display at University College London all except his head which is a model made of wax.

Lockes head looked a bit waxy didnt it

[JACKATE]

He may return to the island with other 6 + Ben to play Christian Role!!

[Lizard King]

Remember in that Orchid Oientation video when the rabbit with 15 painted on its side seemed to duplicate and everyone freaked out, what if that somehow happened to Locke and the duplicate Locke was called Jeremy Bentham. I haven't really thought this whole thing through it just sort of popped in my head. So now there's two Lockes running around and one of them leaves the island and one stays. Then the one that left gets killed somehow.... this is pretty out there. And forgive me if someone has already brought this up.

[medstudent7]

I've decided that Locke can not be permanently dead. I don't know how, but of everyone on the show, Locke has got to live forever.

[8ulletproof]

what i don't get is that nobody had talked to Walt or visited him and Walt called Locke Jeremy Bentham also, so Walt must know that Locke is known as Jeremy Bentham somehow, and he would also know that Hurley knew who he was talking about whilst mentioning Jeremy Bentham! :confused:

[eyeland27]

Damon & Carlton have stated that Season 5 may have alot of "Flash Sideways". I think there's going to be "two" Locke's. Maybe when Ben put all that metal inside the Vault, it caused Locke to be in 2 places at once. Who knows... maybe Jeremy Bentham is Locke's evil clone!?

Could be... what do you think?

[romszone_com]

There has to be just one Locke, and he is dead in the coffin. Thats not to say he will not come back to life, but Ben said they need Locke's body to get back to the island so it can not be a twin or alternate.

Lock will realive when he get back to island. so they have to took John because all has to come back including aeron but clare told kate not to bring him back to island.

I think they will have to kidnap them because that is the only way Kate will go back, and most likely trick Hurley so they can all get back. We all know Ben will do anything to get what he wants.

[eyeland27]

There has to be just one Locke, and he is dead in the coffin. Thats not to say he will not come back to life, but Ben said they need Locke's body to get back to the island so it can not be a twin or alternate.



I think they will have to kidnap them because that is the only way Kate will go back, and most likely trick Hurley so they can all get back. We all know Ben will do anything to get what he wants.

That's not necessarily true... Ben said... "HIS" body. Meaning BENTHAM.

There definitely COULD be two Locke's. Think back to the Dharma Initiative videos with the two Bunnies.

[Neekay]

so does this mean theres going to be another season?????

[NotoriousFIQ]

There definitely COULD be two Locke's. Think back to the Dharma Initiative videos with the two Bunnies.
agreed, i think u got a point there.. sounds crazy but i think thats possible. maybe this time the time traveling is not just "consciousness"..maybe physically..

[eyeland27]

Something crazy's going on with that. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised!

We know there's two more seasons... for definite. SO, I guess we shall see :)

[Lizzie xo]

Yeah, who knows how. :giggle:

I knew it was coming though, because I went on the main forum so many times to see if there was a new download link so I could watch the episode, and saw this thread lol. Never mind eh, i wasn't too bothered about who was in the coffing anyway.

But yeah, how did he die, how did he get off the island. Aghhh.

[Brett16]

When i saw this I was expecting maybe charles Widmore or even Ben himself, But Locke nah that caught me right of guard. I cannot wait now till January when Season 5 airs.

But the question still remains, what happened to locke between taking over "the others" and getting off the island to end up dead.

[jetembers]

I rewatched the scene with Locke in the coffin and I don't see a scar across his right. I don't think it's Locke at all.

[Jacke]

I think the John Locke in the coffin is made of wax, because there's a wax representation of the real Jeremy Bentham kept in the University College in London. So maybe they choose that alias to give us a clue about that. I don't think the island would let Locke die, just like it didn't let Jack kill himself on the bridge and didn't let Micheal kill himself until he made up for what he did and Christian told him he could move on. If Locke is actually dead I think he will be brought back to life once he is taken back to the island.

[Spinnaker]

Even if he is dead, he'll be in all of the next season. We'll get to see his story, how shit turned sour.

[invertebrae]

fake body, a measure to protect the island, and locke?

a doppleganger? something with time travel? there are two locke's? a la marty mcfly.

time travel minus doppleganger, just much later in locke's time, but not much later in real-world time?

it seems obvious that next season will deal a lot with space/time. it's likely the single most important thing whidmore wants from the island right?

...ryan

[JPW]

I always had a feeling Locke would be the one in the coffin. I just never wanted to believe it. But what if this brings Locke back as the new spirit of the island like Christian. You see when Christian's Coffin landed on the island. Christian came back to life as some sort of spirit or something. And he disappeared from his own Coffin.

So maybe that's the plan Locke had.

Or maybe Locke was killed by someone. Suicide I find hard to believe unless the revelation was true that Locke would be crippled if he left the island. Locke didn't want to be crippled.

[echobeach]

what if someone killed locke and made it look like a suicide when he returned to the mainland to tell Jack and Kate to go back to the island

Maybe ben staged the suicide to get people to come to the funeral so they could all be convinced in the one place and at the same time to go back to the island.

And ben knows the island heals locke (spinal injury, gun shot) otherwise why would he be bothered dragging a dead body all the way back to the island?

The Oceanic 6 would probably be more willing to go back to the island knowing locke was dead but upon arrival locke springs back to life!!

Maybe that is a plan between ben and locke to get the oceanic 6 back.

And ben did say that "john, how many times do i have to say? I always have a plan!"

maybe he can return to the island and this is all just a part of ben's plan?!!:shock:

[kooldude3]

Even if Locke is really physically dead it doesn't mean that he's 'gone' and we won't see him again..this is Lost afterall

Exactly! I mean, Christan is dead, yet we see him every other episode now. Charlie died, but that was because the actor was tired of Lost. But they still get him to do minor scenes for Hurley.

My thinking is, Locke is the new spokesman for Jacob. He's gonna have the same role in Lost as Christian, to get Jack to the island. We'll see.. impossible to guess with Lost.

[Grant19]

what if someone killed locke and made it look like a suicide when he returned to the mainland to tell Jack and Kate to go back to the island

Maybe ben staged the suicide to get people to come to the funeral so they could all be convinced in the one place and at the same time to go back to the island.

And ben knows the island heals locke (spinal injury, gun shot) otherwise why would he be bothered dragging a dead body all the way back to the island?

The Oceanic 6 would probably be more willing to go back to the island knowing locke was dead but upon arrival locke springs back to life!!

Maybe that is a plan between ben and locke to get the oceanic 6 back.

And ben did say that "john, how many times do i have to say? I always have a plan!"

maybe he can return to the island and this is all just a part of ben's plan?!!:shock:


sayid probably killed locke if this is true. i thought this too. when sayid tells hurley that benthams dead.. he says "they said it was suicide" in a strage tone as if he had something to do with it

[Annabell]

So you think everyone is really going to go back? With Dead Locke?

YES Why? Because BEN is still running the show. Locke couldn't find the lever to go down into the Orchid...BEN to the rescue. Once there, he had no idea what to do. BEN did it all. Their parting scene was Locke asking what he should do next!! BEN moved the island, not Locke. Then BEN shows up in the funeral home with Jack...telling him the island must have all the people back. So, what do you think will happen? Just what BEN has said, no doubt about it.

[Whytey]

I rewatched the scene with Locke in the coffin and I don't see a scar across his right. I don't think it's Locke at all.

Omfg thats exactly what i thought there was no scar?!
i thought he looked a bit differant aswell

[leer000]

What if he wasnt dead?
He was just playing dead?
huh, id love that to happen

LOST would reach new levels of awesomeness if this happens


just a big "HAI GUISE" and gets out of the coffin

Ha!

[kathy5]

couple of thoughts

when John's dad pushed him out of the window he died but some how he ended up on the Island


2

the people on the Island that he is now sopoused to lead found out that it was sawyer & not john who killed john's dad & they killed him

[Boring8Man]

couple of thoughts

when John's dad pushed him out of the window he died but some how he ended up on the Island


2

the people on the Island that he is now sopoused to lead found out that it was sawyer & not john who killed john's dad & they killed him

Way far fetched to both.
Don't you think that killing Anthony Cooper was more Ben's requirement than the Others overall ? Besides Richard helped Locke with that case(He gave Locke Sawyer's documents and then we know what happend).

[Rocky19]

Omfg thats exactly what i thought there was no scar?!
i thought he looked a bit differant aswell

maybe the funeral parlour guys did some touch up on Locke's face.;)

[medstudent7]

maybe the funeral parlour guys did some touch up on Locke's face.;)
I thought about that, but the funeral parlor was pretty low-quality. I don't know that they would take the time to do a good job covering up his scar.

[Benjamiin Linus]

to me the fact that benjamin linus wanted jack to bring locke back to the island even thought he was currently dead, is foreshadowing toward locke being re-born on the island, essentially like a christian shepard.

[Irus]

The reason why Ben says "whoever moves the island doesnt come back" Maybe he knew people go to tunisia, and he doesnt want locke to do it, cuz then locke will be in the outside world crippled again. Thats why he doesnt let locke turn the wheel.

Then he also agrees to let Kate and Sayyid leave the island when they help to rescue him from widmore's mercenaries. Maybe he knows that after turning the wheel, he will be able to go out in the world and plan to get all the 6 back to the island. Cuz I dont have to tell you guys, that ben ALWAYS has a plan :D

He might have thought, Ahh smurff it, I will let them go now untill I get the island back and move it and by doing so I wil have the oppurtuinity to bring them back anyways.

So yea, lockes not dead, It might be a ploy from Ben to lower the 6 into coming back only to see Locke taking care of the island "badly"

[Brodoink]

If Ben moved through time (from turning the wheel to the desert), the island is also moved through time, which is how it 'moves'. If the island was moved almost 3 years into the future it would mean the next season would not have to be concentrated on the story of what happens on the island over those 3 years, neglecting the oceanic 6.

This would also mean Locke could still be on the island when/if the oceanic 6 get back. I've also seen speculation that the wheel can move you BACK in time as well as forward, so Locke could sacrifice his leadership of the island, to travel back in time to tell the oceanic 6 they are needed on the island.

At least this would mean there is still another season with all the main cast. Also, i don't really think the writers will want to have a continuing split story (between isanders and the O6) while they show what 'bad things' happened on the island after they left

[Irus]

OK, facts: Ben will only turn the wheel if he thought it was safe for him personally. Otherwise he would let it all die cuz he doesn't care about any other thing, thats why he let the man with heart rate monitor die, cuz he only cares about himself.

He knew if Locke turned the wheel, he would be off the island again and it would be bad, so to keep him there and still go to the outside world, Ben chose to turn the wheel, knowing he will end up safley somewhere on the oustide world, where he could first off, kill widmore, her daughter, and then eventually persuade or manipulate everyone of those 6 to come back to the island.

Presenting Jack with lockes body might just be a ploy that ben came up with. When they get back to the island, Locke will be there taking care of the island rather "badly"

[Sashaband]

i'm gonna have to say that Locke being dead is predetermined in order to bring everyone back to the island. Once they're all back, Locke will be "reborn" so to speak. I'm thinking these are of course direct orders from Jacob. Locke had to commit suicide, and then it was Ben's job to recruit everyone in order to bring them back. At first I thought that Ben was the one who took John's life in order to "sneak" back to the island so he could be the man again. However, the way the island works I'm starting to think that this isn't a possibility. I don't care how smart or shrewd Ben is...if the island says nay, then it's nay. However if Ben was to strike a deal with the island let's say to bring everyone back...then maybe Ben could come back as well. Besides, there's no place like home right? Locke isn't dead. He's dead now, but I say it's all a ploy to get them to all come back. Locke couldn't convince Jack to go back, but Ben can. Once back, John will pop back to life and I'm sure Jack will be absolutely "thrilled" to see that it was all a trick.

[kiblerfaeri]

Locke's scar is totally still there.... I rewatched that scene because I wanted to be sure, and it's most definitely there.

Remember that the presence of Jack's appendectomy scar was debated but was ultimately determined to still be there thanks to our friends out there with HD tv? Same thing. It's semi-healed over, but it IS faintly visible (his scar is relatively fresh on the island at only a few months old, but its 3+ years old in the coffin).

As for his head looking waxy, has nobody here EVER been to an open-casket funeral??? The corpse rarely looks like it did in life, and due to the embalming process and all the makeup they apply at those funeral parlors, they tend to look like the Madame Tussaud's versions of themselves. I know I've made that observation at every funeral I've ever been to.

Can someone post an HD screencap of Locke in the coffin?

[IchigoNL]

So who is Locke's 'teenage son' which we saw in the newspaper last season :O?

[Locke's Kidney]

I'm curious about everyone referring to Locke by a different name. Is it possible he has a doppleganger of some sort? It's entirely possible that they referred to him by a different name as a safety measure, but just throwing it out there anyway. Somehow I can't believe the writers would actually kill him off-his character still has a lot to do.

Why's everybody so upset about this? He is dead in 2007! That's when the funeral parlor scene takes place, remember? That's three years after the Oceanic 6 rescue. Obviously some time prior to his death, Locke left the island (certainly the same way Ben did, because why would he want to leave unless it was an emergency that required him to move the island again?) and went to see Jack, Kate etc. under a false name (to protect himself from Widmore's agents, presumably). Only then, he died. Jack explains that it's thought to be suicide, but whenever that line is uttered anywhere, it means murder. I guess Widmore had Locke assassinated.

Anyway, island time for all we know is still 2004, and I think we'll get many scenes on the island next season. Who's still there? Locke, Claire, Juliet, Charlotte, Sawyer, Christian in a way, possibly Jin... we never saw him die, so it's possible he made it off the freighter. Could he have made it to the island before it vanished? Michael is dead however, he's been released from his no-suicide-clause by Christian ;)

So why wouldn't we see Locke anymore, I ask you guys...

[KAHANA]

So who is Locke's 'teenage son' which we saw in the newspaper last season :O?

I think they said that that clipping was just a prop

[IchigoNL]

I think they said that that clipping was just a prop
But didn't the name in the paper fit with the name Jeremy Bentham? So how could it be just a random prop? They wouldn't have just taken the name from the prop cos Jeremy Bentham is a famous philosopher influenced by John Locke.

[KAHANA]

But didn't the name in the paper fit with the name Jeremy Bentham? So how could it be just a random prop? They wouldn't have just taken the name from the prop cos Jeremy Bentham is a famous philosopher influenced by John Locke.

the name on the paper (according to lostpedia) said "John Lantham" plus i think TPTB even said it was a prop

[stunnedtina]

to me the fact that benjamin linus wanted jack to bring locke back to the island even thought he was currently dead, is foreshadowing toward locke being re-born on the island, essentially like a christian shepard.

That was my exact thoughts as well. I definitely think he is dead in the coffin scene but will be reborn if he is taken back to the island.

That scene wasn't a huge shocker for me because I was just somehow expecting it be Locke. Not exactly sure why but I was just expecting it. Started expecting it halfway through the episode.

[KAHANA]

to me the fact that benjamin linus wanted jack to bring locke back to the island even thought he was currently dead, is foreshadowing toward locke being re-born on the island, essentially like a christian shepard.

woah i never realized that! christian came in a coffin and then was "alive" and now John will be coming in a coffin :shock:

[slickrick622]

Hahaha - man, you guys are quick with the Photoshop... brilliant.

But Locke will definitely come back - you don't kill off your only Emmy winner IMO. Just based on the fact that we have seen numerous "dead" characters come back (Shannon's brother, Christian, Charlie, Eko apparently) - he will be back once the body gets to the island.

Also - when 815 crashes - Christian's body is on the plane. And then, coincidentally, who becomes alive on the island? ... It must be that the island needs the physical body in order for the person to actually come back to life.

As you can see.. I said this right after the episode aired...

Christian coffin = Revived Christian spirit
Locke coffin = Revived Locke spirit

[axhusen]

jeremy bentham was a philosopher whos body is on display at University College London all except his head which is a model made of wax.

Lockes head looked a bit waxy didnt it

This must mean something, for sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham#Auto-icon

They dressed his bones in clothes and put on a head made of wax...

[Emzi]

Locke obviously left the island and changed his name to protect himself and the island.

He went to see Jack about a month before he died, and we know he went to see Kate aswell by what Jack says.

It seems obvious to me that when he went to see them, Locke told them that he's changed his name, and Jack and Kate will refer to him as Jeremy because they know refering to him as Locke could blow their whole story.

[will946]

Just because Locke's dead doesn't mean he will be out of the show, nor does it mean he will return as a ghost or spirit or whatever. There is still a major story line occurring on the island, the three years between them leaving the island and Locke ending up in a coffin still need to be documented - I feel this will be where we see Locke in the next season (as well as when he leaves the island as Jeremy Bentham), rather than in ghost-like appearances to the Oceanic Six.

[Jacob'sAdvisor]

woah i never realized that! christian came in a coffin and then was "alive" and now John will be coming in a coffin :shock:

Seeing John in that coffin is giving me second thoughts on Cristian's
"death" as well. i don't know, maybe he really is alive. I mean when you think about it's totally far fetched, people have been dead for hours and doctors were able to bring them back. (I realize this is longer than hours-but it's writer's lisence)

I wouldn't be surprised if Locke let himself die to give the O6 a powerful message (i beleive martyr is the word) knowing full well he could come back.

[carsonlss]

LOCKE IS DEAD.

Ha ha the coffin scene was him..I honestly thought it was Ben untill he showed..up still didn't think it was Locke untill they showed him. What a great scene.

It'll be interesting to find out what has happened,should be immense stuff.
I'm just glad Ben is still alive,what a man.

Well that solves that mystery. Hey everyone you hear that, Locke is definatly dead, this guy said so, and IN CAPS AT THAT, so hes gotta be right. Further debate on this topic will be pointless.