Has Michael been "Otherized"?

[Iam an Other]

Is it possible that because the others have Walt they are making michael a pawn? Maybe they told him to go back to the camp and bring convince people to fight the others. Is it possible he is setting up a trap because he fears for his son????????????????

[DamRho]

My theory is yes and no.

I think that's his plan, to bring everybody there to fight and get his son back. And now if he can get away with what went on in the hatch then the background is set for some major Losties invasion in Otherland. But I don't think he's had any agreement with the Others, he's just with his own agenda now.

[Poppa]

Yes, well, he shot himself, so I doubt he'll be doing anything right now.

Edit: You guys think Michael is dead? He shot himself pretty close to the heart, I mean, I didn't get a good look since I was pretty shocked, but still, he could be dead.

[hidden]

He purposely aimed for his shoulder to make it look like Henry shot him. He didn't kill himself. What I don't get is why he'd go thru the trouble of fabricating the whole 'huts/tents/old man/half of them are women/new hatch' story to the Losties???

If Michael wants ppl to believe Henry shot him and AL/Libby, wouldn't that type of behaviour be totally inconsistent to the one he described to them?

[lkeh]

Yes and no.


I think that they sent him back to let Henry leave, in exchange for Michael. He had to kill Ana and Libby because they probably wouldn't have let Henry leave.

[Couper]

I imagine that was the deal that was made: free Henry at any cost, and bring the rest of the crash survivors to us.. or Walt dies.

[badvibes]

He purposely aimed for his shoulder to make it look like Henry shot him. He didn't kill himself. What I don't get is why he'd go thru the trouble of fabricating the whole 'huts/tents/old man/half of them are women/new hatch' story to the Losties???

If Michael wants ppl to believe Henry shot him and AL/Libby, wouldn't that type of behaviour be totally inconsistent to the one he described to them?
i think that this episode lends credence to the idea that there are multiple groups of others, possibly working in opposition to each other. gale said that TWO of his people were killed, accounting for goodwin and ethan, but not for the guys whose heads Eko bashed in. say the boat-riding others are enemies of the rag-wearing, jungle-creeping others... maybe they don't have the numbers to clash with them head on, so they are using michael to get the losties to do their dirty work for them

[jdLordHelmet]

How did so much get posted about this already? As soon as it happened, I looked here and there was already a sticky post with 5 posts?

[xMJGx]

omg.

hes a bad mamma jamma

framin' henrry!

[theycallmemom]

I think the others told him free Henry and they would give him Walt. I think they are just using him as a pawn. Or he was brainwashed or something...

[PequaPrincess514]

omg.

hes a bad mamma jamma

framin' henrry!
I know! OMG! I cannot believe this episode! My jaw is like open! I cannot wait until next wednesday!

[Man of Adventure]

I dont think this is true because I bet that Michael's story was a fabrication...do you remember the costumes Kate found at the medical center?

[weddlec]

Yeah,

It seemed like the "Others" that Michael spoke of were not Zeke's people. They seemed more like another group that Zeke's people want eliminated and are using the losties to do it.

[lboregard]

michael actually looked surprised when he shot libby, it seems to have been unintended.

shooting ana lucia looks like it was a coincidence, his mission was to free Gale.

i think only one dies and she is libby

[silverbugeye]

So drinking and driving does kill.


I have hated Michael since the yelling of WALT!WALT!!

That was pretty messed up...


But 2 seconds of thought and they would have known Michael was lying...

Where is the gun you took from Locke?

[cheaa]

bro, they brainwashed him or made him do it for his kid. and the whole story thing that he said, was just to make all go to them at once so they could capture all of them, bet there all armed and theres tons of them, its all bull so they can capture them.

[Mr.Eko1987]

He did it because this "HIM" told Mike too, in order to find out where Walt is. Now the way the season is going to go from here is that Mike will find where Walt is, but he wont be there and he will join the fight to kill all the Others!..and then kill himself in the process for the bad things he has done.

[ferunc]

i think that this episode lends credence to the idea that there are multiple groups of others, possibly working in opposition to each other. gale said that TWO of his people were killed, accounting for goodwin and ethan, but not for the guys whose heads Eko bashed in. say the boat-riding others are enemies of the rag-wearing, jungle-creeping others... maybe they don't have the numbers to clash with them head on, so they are using michael to get the losties to do their dirty work for them


I think Henry was talking specifically about the 2 AL killed. He was talking directly to her when he said it (you singular rather than "you" meaning all of them). Ana didn't kill Ethan or the two Eko did in so they weren't included. (She killed Goodwin and the girl)

[canman32]

Well, after Michael came back on the last episode. I told my wife I had a feeling the others got to him but, I wasn’t sure. After tonight’s show, guess I was right. I know ABC was going to get rid of the drunken party gals but, didn’t think they would go about this way. I have to say I’m not to happy with the Michael thing. You could see it coming a mile away. Soon as he (Michael) started his “talking” (don’t want to give anything away) I was sitting there telling my wife (she hates it when I’m right about LOST) what was going to happen and sure enough it did. I don’t like but, they have to change it up to keep fresh.

[whoa_its_jenny]

bro, they brainwashed him or made him do it for his kid. and the whole story thing that he said, was just to make all go to them at once so they could capture all of them, bet there all armed and theres tons of them, its all bull so they can capture them.

i totally believe this too... i think they brainwashed him for walt.

[Philsbury]

ever think he might have done this to rush jack into fighting the others so that he wouldnt start to treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty like he did after he declared war on the others and then wouldnt let any harm gale? and it was pretty obvious that shooting libby was an accident with his reaction. then he had to hurry and open the door to the safe and shoot himself before anyone else got there

[im2emo4myshrt]

im pretty sure that the others told micheal wat is goign on on the island or something like that they got to him and convinced him to agree with him so now he is like thier speacil agent.

[BiggestLostfan]

I dont care what happened to Michael im just so :censored: pissed at him.
Its obviouse he has been otherized but that just sucks cause he killed Ana Lucia and Libby (well maybe Libby) I still have hope she had a lead blanket in her hands (wishful thinking).

[HAL 9000]

I just can't wait to see Michael NOT get his son back. He's doing all of this thinking they're gonna give him Walt, but they're not.

Dumbass.

And if he says "They took my son," one more friggin time...

[lentia08]

let's be honest with ourselves, think back to when Claire came back from the jungle when she was pregnant with aaron. did we not find out on Maternity Leave that she was in fact, completely in touch and that she interacted on a regular and day to day basis with the OTHERS (despite clearly being drugged to not quite act like herself / remember anything afterwards)? YES. saying that michael had no interaction with the others is quite frankly, a load of crap, if you don't mind me saying. "Henry Gale" also told Ana Lucia as she was about to try to kill him that his "LEADER" could change Ana's mind because he knew she was worth it - so what makes us think that Michael could be treated any differently? He was delrious, hysterical even, crazy about trying to find his son - they could have easily have taken advantage of his mind and unstableness (is that a word?) at the time and made him think their thoughts. And the only reason they didn't infiltrate claire's mind was A. because she escaped against their will and B. because all they wanted from her was Aaron (or so we think) so changing her views and thoughts were one of the last things on their mind, and if on their minds at all, would probably be more of a priority after she gave birth to Aaron.

To me, it's clear Michael has been otherized. He's going to blame Libby and Ana and himself being shot (in the arm) on "Henry Gale", but I don't think that Henry is going to rat Michael out because I think that Henry knows what has happened to Michael and is in support of it, so to speak.

[jakem]

SIGHHHH he's the leader of the island guys, jeez. thats why Henry stood up when he saw him.

[Evilrabbit]

Okay, so either:

1. Micheal killed Ana and Libby so Gale could escape and himself because that's what the others wanted, and he did all this because the others threatened to hurt Walt.
2. Same as above, but he did it because he was brainwashed and truly believed the others are doing the right thing.
3. Micheal made it look like Gale killed all three of them, so everyone would get really mad at Gale and have all the more incentive to go after the others. He sacrificed himself because he really wanted the others gone. Doesn't make much sense since everyone already hates the others, and everyone already hates fake Henry.
4. He's acting irrationally because he's lost his frikkin mind.

#1 makes the most sense, although #4 is tempting too. :p I think he was definitely lying about the others being primitive to lull the losties into a false sense of security.

[jakem]

http://lost-forum.com/showthread.php?p=1214241#post1214241

[iFox33]

One thing is for sure, Micheal has in one way or another, been otherized as whoever started this so velmently put it. I'm thinking it must be under threat of never being able to see Walt again, nothing else could motivate him more. Ana and Libby are definently dead though. They're not on the cast for next year, but what a shocker!! holy crap, my eyes jumped out of my head when I saw that.

[stephanielouise7]

My thought is this:

Either that's not really Michael, somehow, or he's been brainwashed or something. Kind of like how Claire lost her memory in the first season after being kidnapped. The others did something to both of them. He's been brainwashed or whatever to tell Jack and the losties that they actually have a chance of defeating the others, when in reality they probably don't. The others are probably very high-tech and advanced and strong, but Michael wants to draw the losties over there. He staged shooting himself so that it looked like Gale escaped and shot everyone. Michael HAD to shoot libby, because it wouldn't make sense for Gale to shoot michael and ana but not libby. that's why he looked so suprised.

Or, another idea:
Michael made a deal with the Others: if he gets Gale out and kills Ana, then he gets his son back. I dunno... very confusing, all of it.

[azure]

Okay, so either:

1. Micheal killed Ana and Libby so Gale could escape and himself because that's what the others wanted, and he did all this because the others threatened to hurt Walt.
2. Same as above, but he did it because he was brainwashed and truly believed the others are doing the right thing.
3. Micheal made it look like Gale killed all three of them, so everyone would get really mad at Gale and have all the more incentive to go after the others. He sacrificed himself because he really wanted the others gone. Doesn't make much sense since everyone already hates the others, and everyone already hates fake Henry.
4. He's acting irrationally because he's lost his frikkin mind.

#1 makes the most sense, although #4 is tempting too. :p I think he was definitely lying about the others being primitive to lull the losties into a false sense of security.

he's obviously not dead, he shot himself in the arm. you can see it by the angle of the camera pretty clearly that way it looks as though he was shot by henry and narrowly avoided death and it's less supicious, but he doesn't have to sacrifice himself.

also, it's "michael." why can't people spell it right? :rolleyes:

[lentia08]

So Kate found stage makeup, fake beard, ugly clothes in that medical hatch where they held claire to have her baby, right? Michael saw them with 'no shoes', 'dirty' clothes, raggedy stuff on, right?

They were in their stage makeup.

Michael is lying through his goddamn teeth. He told them (the losties) that he saw them in those crazy outfits because he knew that it was what Jack and Kate primarily were used to seeing them dressed as. If michael had REALLY just happened to see them, would they really all be wearing their stage makeup and costumes?

No.

[Heathenette]

Yup, this is what I think, too. Especially the last one.
And no, Michael hasn't been "otherized", he's just doing all that he can in order to get Walt back and in one piece, alive.

michael actually looked surprised when he shot libby, it seems to have been unintended.

shooting ana lucia looks like it was a coincidence, his mission was to free Gale.

i think only one dies and she is libby

[sullivan826]

Michael, as we know is a devoted father who will do anything to get his boy back. Even if it means sacrificing the lives of fellow Losties.
..
By killing Ana and Libby (if they are infact dead and can't confess that Michael did the shooting), and by shooting himself in the shoulder, Michael will rile up every single person in that camp into action... except maybe Aaron.
..
Everyone will now "see" how evil the Others are, that Henry would kill Ana and Libby out of cold blood and wound Michael.
..
He now has everyone (and every gun) on his side to get his boy back.

Is Michael an Other, or just smart? :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Shankzilla]

If he was brainwashed to think like an other why would he apologize before he did what he did? He probably cut a deal with the Others.

[viv]

In the previews for next week Michael is seen up, walking around, with his arm in a sling. So he's not dead.

My first thought was that he his purpose for telling the story was to make everyone believe that it was possible to "take them" just so he could get some major help getting Walt back. BUT that doesn't explain how Jack and Kate found him int he jungle. He was pretty.............messed up, for lack of better word or phrase. I'm not sure he's been "otherized" though.

You think maybe they told him to specifically kill Anna? Shooting LIbby was obviously accidental.

[Austruck]

SIGHHHH he's the leader of the island guys, jeez. thats why Henry stood up when he saw him.

You know, I thought this too for a moment. Henry kept saying their leader was brilliant and smart, and he did stand up when Michael came in (something he didn't do for Anna or others).

But then I keep remembering Michael's backstory and history, and it doesn't make sense.

I do think, though, that he's conniving to get the losties into battle with the Others by concocting stories about how few of them there are, etc. If this were a "normal" TV show, I wouldn't think another twist would be prudent, but heck, this is "Lost" we're talking about. It asks more questions than it answers. ;)

[Erstwhile Lurker]

I dont think this is true because I bet that Michael's story was a fabrication...do you remember the costumes Kate found at the medical center?why didn't Kate make a comment or observation like this?

[GThreepwood]

I think the reason Henry stands up is that he hears the gunshots outside and knows that something bad happened, and he's so surprised that MICHAEL comes in, Henry must have intuitively decided AL was dead. He stood thinking "What the crap is going on here??"

I think Michael is lying; the others are probably well-equipped, or he's figured out the secret to their powers. Either way, he's progressively convincing every person on the island to fight with him by 1) downplaying the others' powers (lying about their numbers and condition) and 2) shooting AL, Libby (accidentally, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time), and injuring himself, to make Henry Gale, and consequently, the others as a whole, look even more like ruthless animals. Both of these add incentive to Michael's plan for the rest of the Losties.

What confused me, though, is that Michael would actually be willing to kill 2 people and injure himself all for his son. Is there some ulterior motive? He hadn't known his son except for his infancy and a week after his ex-wife died, so unless the paternal bond is REALLY strong, something's suspicious about it.

I think Michael's morbid means will be discovered by the Losties, however, either through A) Libby or AL waking up and telling what happened or B) the whole situation becoming suspicious and the truth erupts.

[Austruck]

why didn't Kate make a comment or observation like this?

Michael did mention that the Others have a hatch ... and made it sound like he hadn't been in it -- just assumed that's what it was by its metal doors being heavily guarded.

So, would Kate even need to mention this? We've seen how losties with access to the hatch wash up and look nicer and "use" things in the hatch.

[pel]

My thought is this:

Either that's not really Michael, somehow, or he's been brainwashed or something. Kind of like how Claire lost her memory in the first season after being kidnapped. The others did something to both of them. He's been brainwashed or whatever to tell Jack and the losties that they actually have a chance of defeating the others, when in reality they probably don't. The others are probably very high-tech and advanced and strong, but Michael wants to draw the losties over there. He staged shooting himself so that it looked like Gale escaped and shot everyone. Michael HAD to shoot libby, because it wouldn't make sense for Gale to shoot michael and ana but not libby. that's why he looked so suprised.

Or, another idea:
Michael made a deal with the Others: if he gets Gale out and kills Ana, then he gets his son back. I dunno... very confusing, all of it.

See, everybody keeps saying he was brainwashed....They minipulated him, period. They didn't even need to brainwash him because he is so desprite, and i couldn't say i blame him, but dude is extremely naive to actually think it would be so easy. *off to read the rest of the replies*

[Austruck]

What confused me, though, is that Michael would actually be willing to kill 2 people and injure himself all for his son. Is there some ulterior motive? He hadn't known his son except for his infancy and a week after his ex-wife died, so unless the paternal bond is REALLY strong, something's suspicious about it.

I think Michael's morbid means will be discovered by the Losties, however, either through A) Libby or AL waking up and telling what happened or B) the whole situation becoming suspicious and the truth erupts.

I wondered if AL being killed was part of the original plan. Perhaps he meant only to be left alone with Gale and to injure himself. But, with Ana there -- and then she admitted she wanted Gale dead -- Michael had to rethink things. He knew if he didn't act soon, Ana or someone else might kill Gale, thereby thwarting his using Gale as a scapegoat.

So, in a pinch, he decides to kill Ana and then wound himself. Libby was shot only because she startled him while his adrenaline was pumping badly.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

why didn't Kate make a comment or observation like this?
She gave Jack a rather weird look when Michael said that, though...

[Nusent]

Perhaps.

He could be desperate or have gone mad and started to obey the others. This could this be a result from a stockholm disorder, which is a disorder from being held hostage or captured... they become loyal to the bad guy.

There obviously has to be a good reason for this event because Michael wouldn't do this unless there was a good reason... I have a feeling that we won't find out until Season 3 unless I'm wrong.

[muhtonypants]

michael knows exactly what he's doing. no way he's brainwashed.

he told everyone the others have another hatch so we know locke is ready to go. lets not forget locke is the reason gale came to the camp anyway.

ana lucia told him that one of the others was locked up and tried to kill her earlier in the day. there is his opportunity to get everyone ready to go fight the others. off two ladies and set gale free. now everyone is ready to go fight the others and get walt, or so michael hopes.

so i'm pretty sure he knows exactly what he's doing.

[Nusent]

he told everyone the others have another hatch so we know locke is ready to go. lets not forget locke is the reason gale came to the camp anyway.

He could be referring to the, "?" on the blastdoor map...

[poisonpill]

I think about what Henry Gale said about his leader not being a forgiving man and would kill him. So I'm thinking Walt was sent on a mission by the Others, presumably in order to get Walt back, to find Henry and bring him back for punishment for failing his mission.

Also Michael might also be the new guy to bring back Locke.

[Lost Tar Heel]

Michael was sent back to free Gale. It may have been an agreement with the Others to get Walt back. I don't think he meant to kill Libby. She just walked in on it and he had to do it. He shot himself in the arm to make it look like Gale escaped and shot Libby and Ana and himself.

[Nusent]

Yup like i said, it could be a result from the stockholm disorder.

[AbsolutelyCurtains]

It's hard to tell what exactly is Michael's motivation for this. I mean, if he is doing it all just to get Walt back, why kill Ana? They were planning on going after Walt anyway. His actions seemed impulsive, too, like he seized that moment. When he came out of the jungle at the beginning of the ep. he was in the weirdest condition, like a coma. What he said about the others living in tents and worse off than the losties seemed strange when we all know that the clothes are props. We have seen Zeke dressed cleanly and clean shaven, not living in a teepee and eating dried fruit.

Perhaps the others have influenced him, but not "otherized" him. Maybe they knew he was coming and set up the tents and made a little show for him, knowing he would go back and report what he saw.

[GThreepwood]

Yup like i said, it could be a result from the stockholm disorder.

Right, but with Michael's mindset going into his search for Walt, it seems kind of unlikely that Stockholm Syndrome would be a factor. Anyway, I don't think the syndrome goes so far as actually joining sides with the bad guy and doing their dirty work; rather, it's more of sympathy for the bad guy and growing a fondness for him.

[WAWA]

It amazes me how some people are so off its not even funny. Are some of you people watching a completely different show :eh:

1) Ana is dead and was shot right in the middle of her chest. There is nothing Jack could do to ever save her.

2) Libby was carrying a folded blanket and possibly wine from Bernard (even though Hurley was supposed to get it) which explains the little trickling we hear after she is shot. Whether or not Libby dies remains to be scene but she isnt pushing up daisy's just yet.

3) FOR F-Sakes Michael is NOT AN OTHER! To imply someone is an "Other" means that they were there before the flight went down. The "Others" knew Michael was roaming around the jungle and could easily capture him at any time. Which they did ...WHY? BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE HIS F-IN RIFLE ON HIM ANYMORE. He looks badly beaten up and clearly anyone can see that he shot Ana simply to allow Henry to escape.

He allowed Henry to escape because apparently the "Others" are going to either do something to Walt or give him back to Michael.

He is not brain washed or any of that nonsense. He made a concious decison hence his "I'm sorry Ana Lucia" to kill her for his son.

Which now makes Michael Douchebag of the century.

Moreover, the "Others" Michael describes can be delved into further in this great sites spoiler section.

...And YES ABC terminated Ana and possibly Libby because of their DUI's. Wake up people just because JJ says something does'nt mean it's true.

[Vashner]

It's hard to tell what exactly is Michael's motivation for this. I mean, if he is . blah blah...

Perhaps the others.

It's NOT hard to tell his motivation.. W A L T ...

[ceci]

I don't know if this has been said before but I think that Michael talked with the Others and they came up with a trade: You'll let Henry go and we'll give you Walt. Ana L. wouldn't have let him do that so he shot her. Libby was there at the wrong place at the wrong time

[Nusent]

Right, but with Michael's mindset going into his search for Walt, it seems kind of unlikely that Stockholm Syndrome would be a factor. Anyway, I don't think the syndrome goes so far as actually joining sides with the bad guy and doing their dirty work; rather, it's more of sympathy for the bad guy and growing a fondness for him.

Perhaps you're right... but either way, Michael has been obeying the others for a while... He might have done it twice since he took 2 trips to find walt.

[LordWinter]

i think that this episode lends credence to the idea that there are multiple groups of others, possibly working in opposition to each other. gale said that TWO of his people were killed, accounting for goodwin and ethan, but not for the guys whose heads Eko bashed in. say the boat-riding others are enemies of the rag-wearing, jungle-creeping others... maybe they don't have the numbers to clash with them head on, so they are using michael to get the losties to do their dirty work for them

Gale was NOT referring to Ethan. Ana did not kill Ethan. He was saying his comment on two of his "GOOD" people killed DIRECTLY at ANA. She killed Goodwin and a woman on the beach that night when they were still over on the other side of the Island . She found the list on her remember ?

[swimtomswim]

the only sad thing that I noticed right away is that poor hurley lost his girlfriend. If he finds out that Mike shot him, he is gonna pancake him the same way he went after Sawyer a few episodes back. I guess this does prove that Hurley is truly without luck.

[Nusent]

It amazes me how some people are so off its not even funny. Are some of you people watching a completely different show :eh:

1) Ana is dead and was shot right in the middle of her chest. There is nothing Jack could do to ever save her.

2) Libby was carrying a folded blanket and possibly wine from Bernard (even though Hurley was supposed to get it) which explains the little trickling we hear after she is shot. Whether or not Libby dies remains to be scene but she isnt pushing up daisy's just yet.

3) FOR F-Sakes Michael is NOT AN OTHER! To imply someone is an "Other" means that they were there before the flight went down. The "Others" knew Michael was roaming around the jungle and could easily capture him at any time. Which they did ...WHY? BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE HIS F-IN RIFLE ON HIM ANYMORE. He looks badly beaten up and clearly anyone can see that he shot Ana simply to allow Henry to escape.

He allowed Henry to escape because apparently the "Others" are going to either do something to Walt or give him back to Michael.

He is not brain washed or any of that nonsense. He made a concious decison hence his "I'm sorry Ana Lucia" to kill her for his son.

Which now makes Michael Douchebag of the century.

Moreover, the "Others" Michael describes can be delved into further in this great sites spoiler section.

...And YES ABC terminated Ana and possibly Libby because of their DUI's. Wake up people just because JJ says something does'nt mean it's true.


Pretty much everything you said couldn't been agreed more. :D I knew this was coming since that Michelle and the actor for Libby made some of the retardest decisions resulting this as a 'punishment'.

[melloRider]

I personally think that Michael now serves his own agenda, to get Walt back.

In order to do that, he needs to convince the rest of the Losties to take up his charge. He does it by telling them that they are "primative" and practically defenseless. (to secure their belief that they can overtake the Others).

Then supports it with shooting Ana Lucia, Libby (which he probably didnt expect), and shoot himself in the arm to motivate the rest of the Losties to overtake the Others by making them believe that the Others want them all dead.

I think.

[Nusent]

100% pure propaganda. :)

This also convinces me that this is an experiment on behaviorism by the Dharma.

[sid007i]

My theory is yes and no.

I think that's his plan, to bring everybody there to fight and get his son back. And now if he can get away with what went on in the hatch then the background is set for some major Losties invasion in Otherland. But I don't think he's had any agreement with the Others, he's just with his own agenda now.

LMAO! Nice AV

I need one :cool:

[pel]

whats up with mr Eko though...what the hell is he gonna do to deserve attempt in murder. I'm sure theyre going to put a nice little twist on that, but it seems so wrong

[zorrodude]

yea micheal is lying obviously, they cant win, theyre prolly not living in teepee's :P

and they dont only juss have 2 guns, (unless i misunderstood) cuz they were forced to give up guns when they went lookin for michael..

although walt being "HIM" does answer "some" riddles, cuz walt supposedly can see the future, and it seems his dog vince knows wher he's goin when he disappears and reappears..

besides everyone knows "HIM" is ville valo (the singer of HIM) :P srry im still in awestruck to wut happened..

[AbsolutelyCurtains]

It's NOT hard to tell his motivation.. W A L T ...

Wow, thanks ever so much for clarifying that for me. :blank:

[ace_ryan_icon]

I don't think he's been "otherized" I think the trade is with Him. I think they want Henry back, and it's a henry for Walt switch a roo. I you could kinda tell from Kate that she thought he was lying

[SantiMun]

Has anyone maybe considered he's already been in contact with Walt? I think it would be pretty cheesy if Walt just "happend" to use the computer to contact Michael when no one was looking. They let him talk to Michael. Also, remember when Michael left to get his son, he told Jack that he "had to do this alone". Maybe these were instructions from Walt? We never did see what else Walt told Michael. I doubt Michael would just leave before getting more info from Walt. He knew EXACTLY where to go. I know Zeeke told Jack that Michael wouldn't find them. But that was probably a lie to Jack and the rest because he ended up finding them anyways. Before Michael shot himself, he looked at Fenry as if he knew what the main plan was. I think maybe this is all coming from Walt's orders. Why would Walt do this you ask? Well, why the crap would Walt talk to only Michael on the computer? Why would Walt appear and reappear for no damn reason but to talk silly backwards talk? Are we even sure Walt's on the survivors team anymore? :confused:

[MasterStanF2k]

well, they have a hatch and his son is in it.. how else did he communicate with his son on the computer that day??

[BattleRoyale]

I think Michael has made a deal with the Others in exchange for Walt, the Losties must invade their camp. Look at Michael's face, he's clearly in pain for what had to do (so he's not brainwashed or evil), but to him nothing is more important than Walt so right now he's at the mercy of the Others.

[Darth Pipes]

Michael did to Ana-Lucie and Libby what he should have done to that b*tch of a wife of his.

[ronoake]

Ana = DEAD. Michael either chose it or it was chosen for him. Irrefutable.

Libby = Most likely alive.
1) Hurley in the preview doesnt look upset at all.
2) Hurley told her he would maybe remember where he knows her from. Why? Not because it wont matter, that is for damn sure.
3) Why cover where she was shot? To hide that it was not mortal? Prolly.
4) Season cliffhanger is Libby coming out of unconciousness and telling on Michael. DUH.
5) This is LOST. Nothing is what it seems.

PERIOD.

Rono

[BattleRoyale]

Michael did to Ana-Lucie and Libby what he should have done to that b*tch of a wife of his.

What does this have to do about Michael's current situation?:rolleyes:

[downtown]

He purposely aimed for his shoulder to make it look like Henry shot him. He didn't kill himself. What I don't get is why he'd go thru the trouble of fabricating the whole 'huts/tents/old man/half of them are women/new hatch' story to the Losties???

If Michael wants ppl to believe Henry shot him and AL/Libby, wouldn't that type of behaviour be totally inconsistent to the one he described to them?


No, because he simply wanted them to get the guns and bring him one. Things became easier for his plan when Ana brought him one:(

[jenniferc20]

if all the others wanted michael to do for his son was let henry gale go then there would be a better way to do that then killing ana lucia.

and why would you want the losties to go attack the others? i think that maybe he is leading them into a trap...maybe the others know that the "good" people will go and therefore instead of the others having to go to the losties camp site, they literally come to them and they trap them all.

i just want to know why jack and locke are so naive to this plan...i mean they found a lot of guns in their hatch, why wouldn't the other hatch have guns either?

Walt is leverage so the others pretty much control Michael now. He's not brainwashed. He's just plain crrraaaazy. :p

i also don't think michael has become one of the others, either. if he had wouldn't he have killed henry gale just like henry said...he said that the others would kill him for not completing his task..

[downtown]

What confused me, though, is that Michael would actually be willing to kill 2 people and injure himself all for his son. Is there some ulterior motive? He hadn't known his son except for his infancy and a week after his ex-wife died, so unless the paternal bond is REALLY strong, something's suspicious about it.


Thought the same thing exactly. More to this.

[mari4815]

I think that he was brainwashed by the Others to tell Jack and the islanders that they all lived in tents, and could be "taken" easily. Then he killed Ana and Libby, and shot himself in the shoulder so it looks like Henry did it. I'm not sure why, though.

[BattleRoyale]

It does seem a bit extreme, but a parent will go crazy for his/her child. If he's just trying to get Walt back, I think he'll be too guilty about what he had to do to have a happy ending. What would Walt think that he's the cause of two people's deaths?:no:

[2tired2think]

So drinking and driving does kill.

:rotflol:

I had the same thought.

but regarding Michael, I think it was part of a deal that he made with the others to get Walt back, or save his (Walt's)life. Michael's not a killer But when your child needs protection, you'll do things you never thought you would. And I think shooting Libby was a reactionary thing, not thought out at all...it happened too quickly for Michael to think about it.

I don't think there are two groups of others. But what gets me, is why haven't they Losties gone back to the med. center that Claire had been taken to? Wouldn't you want to check it out, look for clues?

anyway, this was the best so far, can't wait til next week!!!

[lisa58]

Michael complained of a headache. Walt has "special" powers. Maybe some of the others can control people through thoughts and that is why Michael seem confused about shooting the women.

[The Walrus]

Unless he's under some mind-control drugs or powers, goodbye to all the kidnapped-son sympathy- this is over the edge. Have they simply blackmailed Michael into being their hit man? Offing Ana Lucia looks like a 'hit' - a revenge killing. Maybe all the Tailies are on his list and Libby just stumbled in, making his job easier. But, by simple paternal blackmail or some 'Other' dark reasons, Michael has turned into one twisted dude.

[admiral]

Michael complained of a headache. Walt has "special" powers. Maybe some of the others can control people through thoughts and that is why Michael seem confused about shooting the women.


Actually you are on to something there.... I also think there is some mind control going on which would likely be hinted more on in season 3....
but Michael planned to shot Ana, since right before he shot her he said something like (I am sorry for doing this ... or ... I cant do this) but he shot the other girl accidently since she just popped out of nowhere and he jumped and pulled the trigger..,..

ps I knew they would kill one person and thought it be Libby (since the producers said a while back they wont kill off Ana for DUI) .. but with what happedned..(michael shooting himself in shoulder and not killing himself) he will make sure ana and libby are both dead since he has the gun and wants no witnesses.

[Terabit]

After reading through a few posts I have a couple questeions as well. Why did Michael have to kill anyone? I mean talk to Jack and Locke, and they would easily trade Gale for whatever Michael needed him for. I think Michael's whole return was fishy, no gun, where did he get the torch, he seemed drugged when he came back( headache, like Claire). His story flies in the face of everything we know. I think his whole story was deliberate to get everyone out of the hatch, to free Gale. Ana and Libby are just victims of wrong place wrong time. And why did he have to do this so fast? We also see Michael back with the lost group with his arm in a sling, why do all this and not even go with Gale back to the others. This really opened up a lot more questions than any other episode in my mind.

[galligirl]

The reason that Henry Gale mentioned Ana killing Goodwin, was to remind us.......because the Others sent Michael back to kill Ana as repayment for what she did to Goodwin....and to set Henry Gale free. They told him that if he did these two things, he would get Walt back. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Damn good eppie folks. My heart is still pounding.

[longboarder1973]

Hmmmm....Doesnt Michael say, "I am Sorry" just before shooting AnaLucia?
If he was brainwashed, why would he say that?
He is saying it because he is sorry...but, it is just something he has to do to get Walt Back.

[BattleRoyale]

Hmmmm....Doesnt Michael say, "I am Sorry" just before shooting AnaLucia?
If he was brainwashed, why would he say that?
He is saying it because he is sorry...but, it is just something he has to do to get Walt Back.

Therefore he's aware of what he's doing and is sad about being FORCED to do it. Look at him after he's killed, the Others don't even blink when doing such a thing. He's changed, but he's not brainwashed or whatever.

[Lake]

does anyone else think 'HIM' is someone already introduced in the series or do u think it's gonna be a new face??

[Arzt]

Hmmmm....Doesnt Michael say, "I am Sorry" just before shooting AnaLucia?
If he was brainwashed, why would he say that?
He is saying it because he is sorry...but, it is just something he has to do to get Walt Back.

Or it could be the Others using remote-viewing/mind control which is one of Dharma's major areas of research.

[theblackholeofsu]

To get the others to invade the other section of the Island, the "Others" had to get Sawyer to give the lostee's the guns. But the only way to do it was to make it seem like his idea. So they told Michael he had to kill Ana-Lucia. He hasn't been changed he's just doing anything to get his son back.

[Lake]

c'mon now u think the producers are gonna cut 2 actresses off a show cause of a DUI. the 'gravesite' pics were released before they DUI's weren't they?

[reye611]

Rumor has it that Chris Elliot & Scott Baio will make appearances as Others next week. Baio, who is a three time champion on the battle of Network Stars obstacle course will be hard to track down and catch in the jungle. Rumor has it that Elliot plays a crazed Other that goes by the name of Mr. Dinky. Mr. Dinky will kill Hurley and make a shrunken head for his collection. Can't wait to see it. Just keeps getting better.

[lebowski]

It amazes me how some people are so off its not even funny. Are some of you people watching a completely different show :eh:

1) Ana is dead and was shot right in the middle of her chest. There is nothing Jack could do to ever save her.

2) Libby was carrying a folded blanket and possibly wine from Bernard (even though Hurley was supposed to get it) which explains the little trickling we hear after she is shot. Whether or not Libby dies remains to be scene but she isnt pushing up daisy's just yet.

3) FOR F-Sakes Michael is NOT AN OTHER! To imply someone is an "Other" means that they were there before the flight went down. The "Others" knew Michael was roaming around the jungle and could easily capture him at any time. Which they did ...WHY? BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE HIS F-IN RIFLE ON HIM ANYMORE. He looks badly beaten up and clearly anyone can see that he shot Ana simply to allow Henry to escape.

He allowed Henry to escape because apparently the "Others" are going to either do something to Walt or give him back to Michael.

He is not brain washed or any of that nonsense. He made a concious decison hence his "I'm sorry Ana Lucia" to kill her for his son.

Which now makes Michael Douchebag of the century.

Moreover, the "Others" Michael describes can be delved into further in this great sites spoiler section.

...And YES ABC terminated Ana and possibly Libby because of their DUI's. Wake up people just because JJ says something does'nt mean it's true.
Thank you. I'm waiting for a Jin-centric episode for some "Jin is the leader" comments.

[Voodoo Lady]

Did I miss something? I don't remember Gale specifically being set free. I assumed Michael had been sent to kill him, as Henry was pretty certain he wouldn't be allowed to live. A shot to Michael's shoulder would allow him to claim self-defense if he were to shoot and kill Gale.

[ThePatientMental]

I think the losties already suspect there is something strange about Michael. Did anyone else notice in the promo for the next episode that Michael is standing alone against the wall in the cell where Henry was? From this it appears that Henry HAS escaped and why else would Michael be in there?

Also why does everbody keep saying Hurley appears to be fine in the promo? His voice sounds like he's kind of choked up and he says to Michael "I'm glad your okay" in a tone that suggests he's the only one who survived.

Did I miss something? I don't remember Gale specifically being set free. I assumed Michael had been sent to kill him, as Henry was pretty certain he wouldn't be allowed to live. A shot to Michael's shoulder would allow him to claim self-defense if he were to shoot and kill Gale.

If he was going to kill him though you'd think he'd do that before shooting himself in the arm though wouldn't you? Otherwise he'd risk the chance of Henry jumping him while he was injured and escaping.

[Fribbio]

I can't believe any of the scenarios that have a rational Michael shooting AL and Libby as part of a deal to get Walt back. I think this is completely out of line with his character as it has been established in the show thus far.

While we know he is desperate to get Walt back, we've also seen that he is sensitive and loyal. Such a radical change in personality without some mind control being involved would be pretty poor writing, if you ask me. Comes off as kind of a gimmicky way to create a plot twist.

Just my 2 cents.

-Fribbio

[stomperusa]

I agree with these "Others' having some kind of mind control. It was pretty easy for Ana Lucia to kill the dude in the alley in that flashback. But when it came to killing Henry Gale, she was crying to Michael saying she couldn't do it. Maybe Henry used some kind of mind control to stop her. And then while holding the gun I believe Michael looked at it and said "I can't"... then turned to Ana Lucia and said "I'm sorry" and pulled the trigger. It was like he didn't want to do it but he couldn't stop himself. And then the look on his face after killing Libby... it seemed he was clearly doing something against his will.

[Crazy Man Dan]

i thought of this when i was lying on my bed


Michael Shot Ana To Say That Henry Shot Her The Shooting Himself in the Arm as a way of saying he shot himself in the arm. Then Killing Henry.


There you have it my half asleep Theroy:D

Edit Libby Isnt Dead Thats She Tells On Michael Thats Why Hes In The Cell In The Preview

[mikefictiti0us]

I just finished watching it then, great episode!

Did I miss something? I don't remember Gale specifically being set free. I assumed Michael had been sent to kill him, as Henry was pretty certain he wouldn't be allowed to live. A shot to Michael's shoulder would allow him to claim self-defense if he were to shoot and kill Gale.

I personally assume that Michael's plan was to free Gale because Michael, after entering Henry's 'cell', shot himself first. You would think that Michael would have shot Gale first before injuring himself, to ensure that Gale doesn't take advantage of the fact that Michael would be momentarily incompacitated by the initial moments of extreme, glassy pain that a gunshot wound causes.

Michael Shot Ana To Say That Henry Shot Her The Shooting Himself in the Arm as a way of saying he shot himself in the arm. Then Killing Henry.

I doubt that Michael will kill Henry. I think Michael made some kind of deal with the Others so he could see Walt, and is going to free Henry in order to fulfill he's end of the deal.
He probably only killed Ana Lucia because she never would have let Michael free Henry. You can also see Michael's hand shaking when he shoots her, as if he didnt want to do it but had no choice -- it was either Ana or Walt. As for Libby, as they say, wrong place at the wrong time.
Anyway, once Henry is set free, Michael can just peddle the story that Henry grabbed the gun off Ana Lucia (after all, he got the best of her only hours before), and shot Ana, Libby and himself (Michael) before escaping.

[popnfresh]

Did I miss something? I don't remember Gale specifically being set free. I assumed Michael had been sent to kill him, as Henry was pretty certain he wouldn't be allowed to live. A shot to Michael's shoulder would allow him to claim self-defense if he were to shoot and kill Gale.

I'm under the impression Gale was set free. Otherwise why did he shoot Ana? Ana wanted Gale dead remember?

I'm not sure why he'd need to claim self defense anyway, he could be friends with ana.

[GT500916]

Im thinking he was brainwashed or was told that if hes not gonna bring survivors to them, they will kill walt. So thats why he said there is only a few of them, and they are not even armer etc etc..

As for shooting 2 of the survivors and himself, he will blame it on Hanry.

[popnfresh]

I think most of us agree that Michael was not brainwashed or 'otherized', which means there's a reason for what he did. It could have been a deal cut he cut with the others, but I don't think the deal was to get Henry back in exchange for his son. Henry said himself that he was dead anyway, or would be for failing his 'mission'. This makes me think that Michael did not free Henry because the others wanted him back. The only possibility I can think of is that the others want to lure the whole lot of them over to their part of the island? Why? Maybe the hatch has something to do with it. The others were interested in Locke who also happens to be the only person really interested in the latch. It could have something to do with Aaron again, .. with everyone galavanting on the other side of the island. Who knows. I'm so confused.

[pax]

c'mon now u think the producers are gonna cut 2 actresses off a show cause of a DUI. the 'gravesite' pics were released before they DUI's weren't they?

yes, i do think they'd do it.

robert downey jr. was cut from Ally McBeal for a drug bust. most actors, athletes and other people in the public eye have morals clauses in their contracts saying they can be cut for doing something that embarrases the company.

and the problem is, if you cut one, you have to cut both.

Michelle already had a DUI conviction in LA. Her blood-alcohol was nearly double the legal limit. I think this whole situation is clearly why she chose 5 days in jail rather than something like 260 hours of community service after she pleaded guilty -- why stick around Hawaii for a couple of months to do community service -- with all the expenses involved -- when the bosses have already told you that you've lost your job?

[alexxxth]

Nothin to do but wait til next week, as per usual.....
I think there's gonna be some funny Hurley-rage next week, he'll rampage after Henry, n probably kill him with his bare hands... But yeh I don't think Libby AND AL are gonna die surely -? Having said that I don't know anythin about the DUIs, don't particularly care either cos the writers'll think of something good no matter what. I have faith.
A

[Watashi-Wa]

There were a few logical inconsistencies in Mike's story that surely to god a qualified surgeon should have been intelligent enough to spot!

The main ones for me are:

(Bearing in mind he 'counted' 22, with no shoes and only two guns between them.)

-- He implies that he never got into their hatch (seeing as he didn't see Walt, but suspects that's where he is) so how does he know there's not more 'guards' in there with more guns, ready to come out and unload hot metal death on any interlopers?

-- If 'their' hatch is guarded 24/7, there surely must be some sort of shift system going on, which would suggest more guards (or at least people strong enough and skilled enough to BE guards) with more guns to take the place of the existing ones (Unless, of course, they hand over the guns to their relief, which would be a bit of a lame cop-out).

-- Jack gave Zeke's group at least four or five guns, and I very much doubt if they didn't have much firepower (as Mike claims) that they'd waste such a haul. Why did he not point this out?!?!


One thing I thought of, assuming the teepees thing isn't a complete lie - there are obviously two groups of others on the island, what if the low-tech 'wild ones' group live outside the hatch in a sort of symbiotic relationship with the high-tech ones? Supplied with protection in return for doing what they're told (perhaps foraging food for them) and never going into the hatch and various other little tasks?

[bizon21]

Obviously, as a father, you'd do anything to get your son back. I think Michael killed Ana-Lucia and Libby to get the other survivors to go to war with the Others to get Walt back. It's twisted to think that he would kill fellow survivors, but I realize that the people he killed were Tallies, not the people who he survived the crash with, so he sacraficed them to start his cause.

Plus, to think that the Others are so basic in how they live (tents, ragged clothing) and to know that Zeke's clothes and beard are fake, leads me to believe one of the following: 1) Michael's working with the Others to get Walt back, and he might have to trade one of this comarades or 2) Michael stumbled across a false set-up that was created for the purpose of anyone who stumbled across them. Like Zeke said, Michael will never find them, not this fake set-up, but the real "Others".

[KvarK]

They defenetly dont have only 2 guns. Becouse in one episode Jack gives them at least 6-7 guns. Soo I agree on this.

[proxi]

I personally think the Others told Walt he'd get Walt back if he retrieved Henry. Ana Lucia was an obstacle in Michael's desperation and Libby merely a subject of terrible bad luck. Michael will set Henry free and believe he'll finally have Walt back I reckon.

Will he get him back? I think not. This will be a victory for the Others in the experiment, and Michael will now be seen as a bad person by them, such as the kind Henry told Ana she was - that they want to work on and change. I believe he's going to be given the same treatment as the rest of the survivors - which is basically more & more head screwing.

[JakeA215]

your theory about Libby telling on michael is not true
because
Michael is up and friends with the Losties in the last 3 episodes and even convinces them to go for walt

[Rob:]]

I'm starting to think that Michael did all that because he was brainwashed (just as Claire was) to be an "other"

I believe he did all of that because Henry is high in the rank. He said they would kill him if they ever saw him.

[ACW]

I think Michael's been "Otherized," for 2 reasons:

1: He seemed sad to shoot AL and shocked when he shot Libby.
2: The way his teeth were chattering when he and Henry met-didn't seem natural.

[Erstwhile Lurker]

I think the losties already suspect there is something strange about Michael. Did anyone else notice in the promo for the next episode that Michael is standing alone against the wall in the cell where Henry was? From this it appears that Henry HAS escaped and why else would Michael be in there?

Also why does everbody keep saying Hurley appears to be fine in the promo? His voice sounds like he's kind of choked up and he says to Michael "I'm glad your okay" in a tone that suggests he's the only one who survived.

I'm no forensic expert but I think this shooting will cause more doubt in the losties of Michael's story. What do you think Michaels' story about the shooting will be? remember that henry was tied up when Jack et al left the hatch - they don't kbow Ana let him untie himself.

How will Mike explain how Henry untied himself, how he opened the door, how he was able to shoot Ana while she sat on the couch (or if they move her body there may be plenty of evidence (blood/bullet passed through ana and is in cushion etc) to prove she was sitting on the couch when she was shot.

Michael was surely a pawn and will take the fall for this because I can't see any story about the events surrounding a triple shooting that he comes up with holding much water.

[koentje.k]

Mike is telling the truth about the fact that the Others live next to a hatch! In the spoiler section there is a threat with foto's of the part were the others live, they don't live in tents but in wooden cabenets. i'm gone try and find that threat

EDIT: Found it: http://lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=37607&highlight=camp

[Hankster]

I do believe he's been converted and was sent to execute Henry and Ana Lucia. Libby was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[eNdless]

hate micheal now !!!! freaking bitchkiller

[Lost Tar Heel]

He was not going to kill Henry. He did it all to let Henry go, but had to make it seem like Henry did it. That is why he shot himself in the arm. It seems to be to get Walt back. But why didn't Michael go with Gale? Why is he trying to convince the other survivors to go get Walt? Is it part of the plan? Is he supposed to bring the survivors to the Others?

[neoanderson]

I don't think Micheal was brainwashed because he was crying when he killed the both of them

[Loni]

I thought that Michael was sent by the others, but that thought changed when he shot himself in the arm... I don't know why he did that!!! OMG WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH HIM?!

Well anyway, I still don't get why they killed off Libby. Michael didn't intend to kill her, that's for sure but... oh jeez, I really hope this will be unveiled in the next episode.. I can't wait til season 3!!!

[Lost Tar Heel]

You can tell Michael did not really want to shoot Ana Lucia, but he felt he had no choice. He had to free Henry. Libby just caught him by surprised. Michael shot himself in the arm to make it look like Gale escaped and shot Ana, Libby and Michael. I think it is part of an agreement he has with the Others to get Walt back. Or, he thinks by doing this he will convince the rest of the survivors to go get Walt.

[Loni]

^If he has indeed been otherized, then I would think that your first theory would be correct because the survivors were already getting ready to get Walt..

but what I don't get is the Libby part. I know Michael shot her accidentally but looking from the producers' perspective, what would that event lead to in the future, regarding the plot??

[J@ck&K@te]

hes just a sad little man killing 2 women after shannon why dont they kill a man or someone other in the 40 something survivors:mad:
In the preview they say a traitor comes or something like taht so f**k michael i hope he gets killed alone by the others!

[HermS]

I don't think he was really Otherised, else he wouldn't have been shaking like that, he'd have shot them dead as cool as a cucumber, he'd have had purpose and wouldn't have had the slightest bit of remorse. It has to be a case of him being coerced to do it by the Others to get WaaaaAAAlllLLLttttt back.

As far as the Others' camp being a bunch of tents and stuff, that is clearly bogus and part of the deal to get his boy back... It's a trap, perhaps to get the guns or maybe to get the 'good' ones that are left from the Losties, maybe both. One things for sure the Others aint gonna keep their end of the bargain.

[deelee]

I don't think he's really been "Otherized" but I do think they promised to give him Walt if he killed people. Maybe they wanted Ana dead because she killed Goodwin/that other random and was not a good person. Michael was totally thinking about backing out, and looked genuinely (sp?) upset when he killed them.

[halpy]

While everyone's talking about how Walt is the reason for Michael's behavior, and how important he is because of his "special powers" according to the top 5 baby name sites listed on Google, Walt and Walter is a German name meaning powerful soldier, amry general, and warrior leader. Think they chose that name wisely?

[deelee]

While everyone's talking about how Walt is the reason for Michael's behavior, and how important he is because of his "special powers" according to the top 5 baby name sites listed on Google, Walt and Walter is a German name meaning powerful soldier, amry general, and warrior leader. Think they chose that name wisely?

I think they choose every name purposely.

[peytonfarkuhar]

no

his main motivation is to get walt back. the others know HG was being held either by rousseau or the losties. they tell michael that if he wants walt back, let HG go. michael gets back to the hatch and AL is there. he kills her. he shoots himself to make it look like a struggle. HG leaves. Michael believes he will get walt back once HG returns to the others.

[Shoe]

Okay, obviously criticizing Michael for shooting AL(My fav!!!) and Libby is okay. I have no problem with that. But hating Michael for screaming "WALT" and saying "I want my son back", Iunno most people who lose their children are like that. I sure know as hell if I lost mine I would.

Moving on, although I dont want it to be so, I think Michael has his own agenda. What is his agenda? I don't know, but he's definitely not on either side...as of now.

[Loni]

Naming John 'John Locke' was not a coicidence, I'm sure. Wonder what's behind all the names?

[Golden Condor]

I think he's simply been brainwashed, or he's being blackmailed (he did appologise).:cool:

[Loni]

You know what, the situation all worked out so perfectly for Michael. How is it that Sawyer just happens to have all the guns and Kate, Locke and Jack leave the hatch leaving Ana Lucia with Michael and Henry... and then AL happens to have a gun... and Michael tricks her into giving it to him???

[LisaMac]

Of course Michael made a deal. The problem is that the Others are just stringing him along. Did the Others actually ever kill anyone? Henry called Ana Lucia a Killer. Are they not killers?

[sankone]

i think michael found people, BUT they are NOT the others. i think he has found another group of losties different from our losties all together. and michael believes they are the others.

michael killing AL and libby(unfortunate mishap) is his way of gathering the troops to invade the group who he believes to be the others and get walt back.

[schuey10]

Do we know how long Michael was gone for. In one part of the show he explains how he followed one of the others and then watched them.....It seems like he's been missing for weeks. Was he just roaming around the jungle the whole time.

I dont think he's been brainwashed or anything. If anything they may have accepted him knowing that they could eventually use him to get Henry back. He was probably with Walt the whole time and was convinced somehow to infiltrate the hatch to get Henry.

We all assume the Others are the baddies in this show, but I am not convinced. I think we are being setup here. The others could be the test subjects from the inital Dharma experiment that have created their own utopian society that they do not want other people influencing. For the most part they are only interested in taking children....minds they can easily influence to their own way of thinking.

[Lexxeech]

Uh, I got as far as Page 7, but I have to work, so without further a due, here's my POV:

I haven't made a single comment throughout the whole 2 seasons, but I was reading all these theories of yours, they help a lot actually.

What I think is that Michael is indeed "manipulated" by some meds or mind control device, whatever. Perhaps Michael had to kill Libby, because otherwise Hurley might actually remember where he met her, and that's a non-permit in this experiment. Another thing, I believe that Michael actually killed Henry, and later on say that he somehow managed to stop him from killing the last one - himself, and shot him as part of self-defence. Gale knew what he was going to face, once Michael opened the door. Michael did his best to set everything right. Jack wants to fight the others - there you go, a perfect reason for that is killing 2 of Losties and acqusing Gale in doing that. Sawyer kind of fell in love in AL, and now she's dead - go give out the guns. Locke wants to find new hatch, one of those from the map - go with us, and you'll have it. Even freaking Hurley will be desperate to avenge. I get a strong feeling that Losties are being watched 24/7, I mean look what happened to Shannon (was this really bullet of AL that killed here, and not The Others who are proven to be sharp shooters?) after she had sex with Sayid (whatever his name spells). Now we have AL dead, as part of punishment. Jack / Kate next? What about Sun and Jin? Hurley and Libby - could this be part of that too? Uhhhh, so many questions..

Uhm, supposedly there are two types of "The Others", like it has been said already, ones in rags, others in suits. Those second ones sometimes use make-up and fake stuff to act as if they're the first ones. Perhaps first ones are part of the experiment too, survivors of plane crash or some Titanic, whatever this Island is capable of. And now it's time to see what Losties can do with these first type others, perhaps a war, or this whole thing was used as a way to get them out of hatch. Uhh, so many theories...

I'm just kind of feeling bad due to what they did to two characters (Libby, AL), I mean they are changing the plot from time to time due to issues they are facing, that's kind of.. weak ;-)

In the end, what we'll prolly see in the next ep is going to be totally different from what we talked about here in this thread.

[Loni]

And that conversation's still not over... the one between Henry and Locke.. about Henry being sent to take Locke. Obvisouly the others are not just savages..

[sankone]

loni:
"about Henry being sent to take Locke"

i don't think that is the case. henry has been playing locke like a fiddle, manipulating him and making him crazy. he has locke wrapped around his finger. he's telling locke the whole time what locke wants to hear.

[dapeter]

Don't forget that Michael worked for Widmore Construction... which is affiliated with The Hanso Foundation.

Maybe he's been a part of it the whole time: he was their 'minder' until they got on the island.

Or maybe he found the others and recognized their leader as someone from Widmore.

[AlexanderDelarge]

Sawyer is/was never in love with Ana Lucia. Lust, yes. Love, no.

[tombo]

I don't think Libby is dead. I think Michael did this to piss everyone off enough to go fight the others. I think they're more sinister than he's making out. I don't think he saw all of them. I thought it was boring until Michael shot the women, THEN I was paying attention closely :p

[johnny_sack]

I don't he's been brainwashed but I do think he's made a deal with the others. That is pretty obvious.

We don't know the details yet but it would seem that freeing Henry Gale is part of it.

Episode 2x22 is a Michael flashback called "3 Minutes" and I suspect 3 minutes is how long they let him talk to Walt. It's already been stated 3 minutes is the length of an event, so i think this is a good theory..

I also think libby is dead. ABC wanted them gone because of their DUIs, she might cling to life for a bit but her days on Lost are soon over.

[Loni]

Locke, Kate and Jack's behavior towards Sawyer was appalling. They looked like they were facing an extremely urgent issue but what Mike told them wasn't enough to get them all pumped up like that. The fact that just those few descriptions by Mike spurred a reaction... I mean it's just logically incorrect. They all know that the Others aren't 'weak' and can be overruled by them!

I don't he's been brainwashed but I do think he's made a deal with the others. That is pretty obvious.

We don't know the details yet but it would seem that freeing Henry Gale is part of it.

Episode 2x22 is a Michael flashback called "3 Minutes" and I suspect 3 minutes is how long they let him talk to Walt. It's already been stated 3 minutes is the length of an event, so i think this is a good theory..

I also think libby is dead. ABC wanted them gone because of their DUIs, she might cling to life for a bit but her days on Lost are soon over.

According to the interview with Cues and Lindelof (sp?), Michelle Rodriguez was only signed on to this show for a year. But I'm not sure about Libby...

[Worst Tiler]

I think Michael did what he did last night not because he is being coerced by the Others, or made or deal with them or anything. I think he is so desperate to get his son back and he wants to make SURE that his fellow survivors go with him to get Walt back, so he shoots AL and Libby, then himself, lets Henry go, and then he will tell everyone that Henry got loose, shot everyone and escaped. This way, the survivors are really motivated for revenge and Michael will be sure to get back up to get Walt back.

[Loni]

But doesn't that contradict what Mike told Jack, Locke, Kate, and Ana Lucia? He said the Others had only two guns and that they're 'worse off than we are'...

[pshkbb]

I don't know what to think but it does seem as tho Michael shot Libby accidentally - he seemed shocked after shooting AL and Libby surprised them and boom.... I also bet she isn't dead - there has to be a reason she was holding that blanket in front of herself and they showed the shots going thru it.

as for shooting AL _ I am betting it was deal made with the Others as Gale told AL she was one of the bad ones and told Locke he was a "good" one and he had been sent to get him. I am guessing that the Others knew gale failed and that he was liability to them either way - either by giving too much info to the Losties or by being a failure to them.

When Kate and Jack went to the jungle they said they were going to make a trade and I am guessing that the Others expect Michael to do the same - AL for Walt and then get him to elad them all to them.....

[beantotherescue]

Im pretty sure Michael is completely brainwashed at this point. It didnt seem like he was trying to lie to everyone...it was it came so naturally. Creeps me out man.

[wools_68]

I like this guy's theory...

I think that's his plan, to bring everybody there to fight and get his son back. And now if he can get away with what went on in the hatch then the background is set for some major Losties invasion in Otherland. But I don't think he's had any agreement with the Others, he's just with his own agenda now.

I totally agree... I think it's gonna be good ole classic thinks-for-himself Michael tricking everyone into thinking that The Others arent worth a damn and that they "can take them."

I think they'll get there and realize that Michael was lying and he'll confess the whole thing.

[ClonedEmperor]

I originally thought Michael was full of BS from the beginning. but I think now that parts of his story are true. Henry's comments make me think more and more that the Others are like a cult- holding their lower members helpless and brainwashed.
When Michael arrived at the "Other's camp" he saw what the lower members have to deal with- crappy conditions, bad food, while the high ups of Dharma and the Others live happily in the Hatch. It's my theory that he did sneak in, than got the shock of his life to find armed scientists or simply guards, who offered him a choice- die, or help us and get your son back. And of course, we know Michael, and from last night's episode we know what he chose. Or something along the lines of that.
Other than that, he's lying through his teeth. Not a mention of "Walt" on the computer, or anything that happene with that. There's no way after being contacted by his "son" that Michael would stop after seeing 2 armed natives and 20 other old men and women.

[estreperdida]

So indeed AL was killed for all of the above (prob. for killing Goodwin, but remember she wasn't on the Others' List! So they know about her, they know she can figure things out as a cop & crazy-suspicious chick.

Libby could be dead, but I think she will rat out Michael (it did look like he was in Henry's cell in the preview.. maybe they put him in there .. otherwise he'd be in bed like Sawyer was when he was shot. Also Libby needs to play out her part in the mental institution w/ Hurley. Although they could do a flashback to explain it while she is about to die... who knows. Her role is not entirely over.

I agree that Jack and Kate are suspicious of Michael.. :rolleyes: but you guys remember Henry saying "you guys have serious trust issues" ... well lets remember that and I think they will mention it to eachother in private. Michael was not there when Zecke warned them about staying in their side of the island, so Michael may or may not realize that several guns were surrendered. Jack & Kate & Locke's characters' are not dumb, they are very discrete though.

What I liked was that AL finally had a change of heart... she couldnt kill cold blooded revange anymore. Maybe they wrote that into the end of her character so we'd remember her sort of fondly and not as a messed up revenge driven hard ass. :o

What was up with the gratuitous sex scence b/t AL and Sawyer? I mean I know she did it to get the gun... AND I must say I was dissapointed to see that she couldnt struggle away from him...so much for having Cop-training right? But although I appreciate them, I am sure the guys are getting sick of Sawyer shirt-less. :w00t:

Thats all for now.

:)

[UndrTheSpotlight]

his mind focus on gettting walt back has made him insane.
they probably told him they would give him walt back if he gave them henry back

[medstudent7]

his mind focus on gettting walt back has made him insane.
they probably told him they would give him walt back if he gave them henry back
I thought about this. But, Michael had the gun. He could've simple gotten the combination and shot Ana in the leg so she couldn't stop him from freeing Henry. Or he could've held the gun to her head and made her open the door to free Henry. Michael wanted to kill Ana AND free Fenry(I think).
He could've freed Fenry and allowed Ana to live.
I agree with others(not Others) who were freaked out by Michael last night, he was not acting "right"

[Havoc]

i think libby was in the wrong place at the wrong time :shock:


On a serious note: i believe micheal framed henry for anaLs death and was so scared he shot libby without thinking.

But he framed henry so get jack/locke etc angry and to go fight to get his son back. :mad:

[Oliver]

Michael didn't know about Fenry, you can tell by the way he looks at Ana when she tells him. It was only then he got the idea to free him and let him get away. I think he had other ideas up until that point.

[Havoc]

Michael didn't know about Fenry, you can tell by the way he looks at Ana when she tells him. It was only then he got the idea to free him and let him get away. I think he had other ideas up until that point.
u saw how good henry was at lying, he might to be the same.

all micheal cares about is walt.

[Vashner]

Michael didn't know about Fenry, you can tell by the way he looks at Ana when she tells him. It was only then he got the idea to free him and let him get away. I think he had other ideas up until that point.

I think he was sent by one of the others groups to get Henry. We don't even know if it IS Michael.. could be a doppleganger or the like.

[UniqueFrequency]

I thought it was quite clear that Michael was "otherized". from the point Henry said the Others would kill him it seemed apparent that was being set up. Further strengthened when Mike started to get Jack to go to "war" with the Others.

Man the finale is shaping up to be a shocker!!

[jrudolph]

If Michael was sent to to do something that he apparently was sad to do, maybe it was that he really DID see Walt, and the people there blackmailed him into going back and wreaking havoc, or else they'd kill Walt.

[Havoc]

On the 2x21 preview it looks like mike throws eko off a cliff? Or mike does something and more people die!

After seeing the 2x21 preview ^

[Mrs.Friendly]

I don't think he's bad or "otherized". We don't know what he went through... If you looked at his face after he shot them he didn't look happy.


And I'm one of the people who think that the others are good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but have we seen them kill anyone yet. We've seen them kidnap people sure, but they could be getting the royalty treatment.

[Altmannia]

I don't think he's bad or "otherized". We don't know what he went through... If you looked at his face after he shot them he didn't look happy.


And I'm one of the people who think that the others are good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but have we seen them kill anyone yet. We've seen them kidnap people sure, but they could be getting the royalty treatment.

think back to earlier in the episode when fenry was talking about his mission and all, if michael was in contact with the others his mission must of had something to do with coming back to the hatch and killing certain people. i think that when we get michael's flashback in a couple weeks, that we'll find out that fenry was in contact with the others and michael was with them at the time, michael probally struck a deal to go back and do a certain job and in return, he would get his son back, or at least get to be with his son...i dont really think its a brainwashing thing persay, thats to corny for this show, but i do think that this HIM or HE has alot of sway and knowledge about everything so he knew and knows how to get what he wants

[benos]

No, i don't see Eko dying, wow. they are killing off the tallies! ha ha.

[LisaMac]

Someone please answer this. Have the Others killed anyone? I don't think they have.

[Kalo_Vast]

Is it possible that because the others have Walt they are making michael a pawn? Maybe they told him to go back to the camp and bring convince people to fight the others. Is it possible he is setting up a trap because he fears for his son????????????????

I started this post in a different thread, but someone kindly forwarded me here. I've been so good about checking to be sure i'm not double-posting, but I guess I got a little overzealous in this case. At any rate, this is how I think it breaks down:

Michael goes out to find Walt and The Others. He finds their camp, gets taken by them (I do believe they're every bit as smart as they look), and is essentially told he won't be getting Walt back. The only compromise comes about when The Others realize "Henry" has been taken. Suddenly, Michael has some value again. The Others make him a proposition: Get Henry out and lure the leaders of the survivor camp back to our place so we can wipe out the one's who aren't worthy, and keep the one's who are. What does Michael get in return? Well, as "Henry" said, "they'll never give you Walt." But perhaps they'll allow Michael to stay with them and be with Walt, if Michael carries out this ever-important mission.

Michael convinces Ana Lucia to give him the gun so he can deal with Henry, because they're such "animals" and all, even though they haven't really shown that they're animals as far as we can see, given the costumes, elaborate hatches, supply drops, medical facilities, vaccines, etc. She gives him the gun and he shoots her. Libby walks in unexpectedly, he shoots her as well. Michael then goes into the cell and shoots himself in the arm.

I've been assuming that Henry escapes at this point, but do you really think he does? He's said over and over that they'll kill him once they get him back, so it is really in his best interest to return to them? That's up in the air, but that's okay because it isn't the basis for this post.

I think Libby has been mortally wounded, but she'll be around long enough to let everyone know what Michael has done, and also to let Hurley know the things he needs to know about her past and why she was actually on that plane.

Once everyone finds out what Michael has done, they'll throw him in the cell (we see him in the cell in previews), and they will not take his advice and go into the Others camp.

Any takers?

[johnny_sack]

Someone please answer this. Have the Others killed anyone? I don't think they have.

Goodwin killed Nathan and Ethan killed Scott or Steve.

BUT - both were forced into it and didn't really want to do these things.

I also think the Others aren't that bad. Certainly in THEIR minds they don't think of themselves as evil.

[Havoc]

I also think the Others aren't that bad. Certainly in THEIR minds they don't think of themselves as evil.

i think they kill the bad and look after the good.

[UniqueFrequency]

I've been assuming that Henry escapes at this point, but do you really think he does? He's said over and over that they'll kill him once they get him back, so it is really in his best interest to return to them? That's up in the air, but that's okay because it isn't the basis for this post.

I think Libby has been mortally wounded, but she'll be around long enough to let everyone know what Michael has done, and also to let Hurley know the things he needs to know about her past and why she was actually on that plane.

Once everyone finds out what Michael has done, they'll throw him in the cell (we see him in the cell in previews), and they will not take his advice and go into the Others camp.



Seeing how the preview doesn't show Henry, he might have escaped... but you wonder what's the point since he knows he's going to be dead, like you said

I don't think the Libby thing will be so easily and clearly explained. When was the last time we had such a good explanation on the show!

Definitely Mike ends up in the Vault... as for whether or not they go for the Others, I'm not sure. I wonder why does he control their fate?

[ctrlz]

I don't think he's bad or "otherized". We don't know what he went through... If you looked at his face after he shot them he didn't look happy.

Looked a bit deranged.
Remember, Danielle said to watch out for the Sickness.

[Dolphincrc]

Well, after Michael came back on the last episode. I told my wife I had a feeling the others got to him but, I wasn’t sure. After tonight’s show, guess I was right. I know ABC was going to get rid of the drunken party gals but, didn’t think they would go about this way. I have to say I’m not to happy with the Michael thing. You could see it coming a mile away. Soon as he (Michael) started his “talking” (don’t want to give anything away) I was sitting there telling my wife (she hates it when I’m right about LOST) what was going to happen and sure enough it did. I don’t like but, they have to change it up to keep fresh.


So what does that makes us who didnt "see it coming a mile away"? blind, or maybe idiots?

[Exie]

I dont think Michael has gone to the dark side at all...I think they cut him a deal--give us Henry and we'll give you Walt. (Or something of the sort.) You could tell that he didnt want to shoot Ana because he had tears in his eyes. Then he only shot Libby because it was a reflex of surprise/startlement, because he knew he had just killed someone and Libby walked in at the wrong time. Michael is still a human being, but he cares more for his son than what might happen to himself if he killed someone in order to save Walt.

[nightskiesfading]

I definitely think they messed with him out there, told him that if he did this for them he would get his son back. My theory, they wanted Henry dead, for reasons Henry said himself, and Mike was going to do this by having the Losties kill him, of course they would kill him after it looked like he killed one of theirs, then shot Michael. Michael is going to look like the hero here, shot in the arm trying to stop Henry. I think he just killed Libby caught up in the moment.

Telling them they can attack might be part of his little plan too, have them out there and let them get over run, Jack did cross 'the line'

[shaunybaby]

i haven't read through all of the pages, i mean it'd take hours.

lets looks at the facts, michael comes back, tells the losties they have to go after the others to get back walt, now either way michaels strong connection with walt, means he would not kill himself, i think i can safely say we'll be seeing michael in the next episode and he will not be dead.

perhaps there is a hidden agenda that michael was told to instigate something to get the losties to fight...but what's the need as they all went to find sawyer to get the guns anyway. the others could not have known ana lucia would be at the hatch, and libby was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. therefore they were not targets, michael had to kill them both as there could be no witnesses.

the only explanation would be that the others told them that he had to free henry, the only way he could do that was to get ana out of the way. he shot himself in the shoulder to make it look like henry escaped. if he wanted to kill henry, he would have shot henry and then shot himself, but obviously henry needs to escape with michael wounded to add to the effect that henry escape and so on.

the thing is either way, walt is safe, and even henry says they'll never give you walt. so the others wouldn't kill walt, so why is michael doing this? why let henry go and make it look like he escaped, especially since henry said that the others would kill him as he failed...

all confusing stuff :confused:

[The Walrus]

I started this post in a different thread, but someone kindly forwarded me here. I've been so good about checking to be sure i'm not double-posting, but I guess I got a little overzealous in this case. At any rate, this is how I think it breaks down:

Michael goes out to find Walt and The Others. He finds their camp, gets taken by them (I do believe they're every bit as smart as they look), and is essentially told he won't be getting Walt back. The only compromise comes about when The Others realize "Henry" has been taken. Suddenly, Michael has some value again. The Others make him a proposition: Get Henry out and lure the leaders of the survivor camp back to our place so we can wipe out the one's who aren't worthy, and keep the one's who are. What does Michael get in return? Well, as "Henry" said, "they'll never give you Walt." But perhaps they'll allow Michael to stay with them and be with Walt, if Michael carries out this ever-important mission.

Michael convinces Ana Lucia to give him the gun so he can deal with Henry, because they're such "animals" and all, even though they haven't really shown that they're animals as far as we can see, given the costumes, elaborate hatches, supply drops, medical facilities, vaccines, etc. She gives him the gun and he shoots her. Libby walks in unexpectedly, he shoots her as well. Michael then goes into the cell and shoots himself in the arm.

I've been assuming that Henry escapes at this point, but do you really think he does? He's said over and over that they'll kill him once they get him back, so it is really in his best interest to return to them? That's up in the air, but that's okay because it isn't the basis for this post.

I think Libby has been mortally wounded, but she'll be around long enough to let everyone know what Michael has done, and also to let Hurley know the things he needs to know about her past and why she was actually on that plane.

Once everyone finds out what Michael has done, they'll throw him in the cell (we see him in the cell in previews), and they will not take his advice and go into the Others camp.

Any takers?
Yes, these are persuasive ideas. But sensitive artist Michael being capable of willfully MURDERING any of the 815 survivors in his first conscious hours back just seems to be too much to swallow. (...despite the fact that he threatened to kill Locke at one point). I'm more drawn to the drug-induced manipulation of Claire in the medical hatch to explain this violence and murder.

[Kalo_Vast]

I don't think he's bad or "otherized". We don't know what he went through... If you looked at his face after he shot them he didn't look happy.


And I'm one of the people who think that the others are good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but have we seen them kill anyone yet. We've seen them kidnap people sure, but they could be getting the royalty treatment.

I will say Goodwin killed that dude in the hole that Ana Lucia made on the other 48
days, he snapped his neck. Mr Friendly's boys shot Sawyer and left Walt and Jin for dead in the middle of the ocean without a boat, Ethan left Charley hanging by his neck from a rope... So while most of these instances don't include actual deaths, they do include attempted murder, and that's just as good in a court of law. =)

[Kraze]

i dont think micheals been brainwashed, i think the others cut him a deal if he wants his son back his going have to kill the people from the plane crash, Walt is more important than anyone else there on that island. If he wants Walt back his going to have to do thier dirty work and get rid of the "bad ones" and keep the "good ones".

[ceci]

i dont think micheals been brainwashed, i think the others cut him a deal if he wants his son back his going have to kill the people from the plane crash, Walt is more important anyone else there on that island. If he wants Walt back his going to have to do thier dirty work and get rid of the "bad ones" and keep the "good ones".
I don't think he's gonna start to kill the rest of the Losties. I think he just did it so that Henry could get away and he could get Walt back

[JoshHolloway]

I don't think he's gonna start to kill the rest of the Losties. I think he just did it so that Henry could get away and he could get Walt back


I don`t think he will let Henry go. The pretended attack is meant to cause anger and feelings of revenge so that the Losties go to war. I think in the next episode we will see how Michael kills Henry, because it`s too risky to let Henry go. How could he escape unseen so Michaels story seems to be true? If Jack and co discover Henry alive, Michael`s probable plan won`t work.

[wools_68]

Ok heres a thought...

People keep bringing up the question "Have the others actually killed anyone yet?"

On top of that people are speculating that they sent Michael back to kill Ana (or whoever else) in order to regain his son...

Kinda defeats the purpose right?

Also Ethan fought Jack in the process of kidnapping Claire, and also strung Charlie up to a tree and left him for dead...

And when Sayid had Fenry at gunpoint - Fenry went on and on about how "He" will kill me.

Well?? What do yall think?

[BeauSmith]

One of the far fetched rumors that is going around is that Walt is behind most of this. I know....sounds too far out, but there was talk of him being the chosen one of the whole Dharma experiement . I don't figure this one to be true.

As far as Henry goes.....since he got in the hatch he sure took a lot of beatings. Did anyone besides me notice that after them he never really seemed to be as badly hurt as one would be from such beatings and loss of food and activitiy?

Just a thought.

Beau

[ceci]

I don`t think he will let Henry go. The pretended attack is meant to cause anger and feelings of revenge so that the Losties go to war. I think in the next episode we will see how Michael kills Henry, because it`s too risky to let Henry go. How could he escape unseen so Michaels story seems to be true? If Jack and co discover Henry alive, Michael`s probable plan won`t work.
I do think that henry can get away without jack and Co. knowing. Michael can tell them that Henry shot him, then killed Ana and Libby and got away. The Losties are angry and go off to finish this with the Others, hence the war

[Kraze]

Well if his not going to kill the rest of them he sure is going to cause havok between them all, like it said in the preview his the one thats going to control thier destiny since no one suspects him of nothing, and he can do or manipulate any situation.

[AbsolutelyCurtains]

One of the far fetched rumors that is going around is that Walt is behind most of this. I know....sounds too far out, but there was talk of him being the chosen one of the whole Dharma experiement . I don't figure this one to be true.

As far as Henry goes.....since he got in the hatch he sure took a lot of beatings. Did anyone besides me notice that after them he never really seemed to be as badly hurt as one would be from such beatings and loss of food and activitiy?

Just a thought.

Beau

Heh. That would be crazy, like Michael is just doing what Walt tells him to. I could so see a little evil Walt, orchestrating murders and such. :p

[ianlou0203]

Does anyone think that maybe Walt and Henry have met before? Walt has been gone a while, and Henry just happened to get caught in Rusoe's trap? I would think that the other's know about Rusoe and her traps by now. Henry also dropped the hint about using him to trade for someone else, to Jack and Locke. So that makes me think this was set up in advance.

Sorry I meant Michael, not Walt. Does anyone think that Michael and Henry have met before!!

[JoshHolloway]

I do think that henry can get away without jack and Co. knowing. Michael can tell them that Henry shot him, then killed Ana and Libby and got away. The Losties are angry and go off to finish this with the Others, hence the war

And which way should Henry take to escape? That would be far too risky to let him escape. Michael`s whole plan and his credibility would have been destroyed. I don`t think he will go that risky way. Besides it would be very contradictory of Michael letting Herny escape and then going to war and try to kill the others, wouldn`t it?

[saywhat]

I don't know what's wrong with Michael..
But in the promo for the next ep, where you can see michael with that sheezy around his arm/shoulder, he looked kinda evil.. I think he knows what he's doing, eventhough it looked like he was shocked after shooting Ana Lucia and Libby.

[Sam Squanch]

Has Michael been swayed by the others? I think so. I think the idea that they blackmailed him into freeing Gale by threatening Walt's safety/life is spot on. He killed Ana on purpose. Libby was collateral damge. The previews I saw for next week's episode show Mike with his arm in a sling and the voiceover syas something like "Their fate depends on one man." and they show Michael. Whether this is clever editing is anybody's guess.

My prediction is this; Both Libby and Ana are dead. Michael shot himself in the arm to make it look like Henry did it. This will keep him in trust with the rest of the Losties. He made up the whole bit about the Others being old, unarmed, worse off thean them etc. to build up confidence in the group. They will go en masse (Henry included) to confront the Others and free Walt. If we are close to the end of the season , I think it will end there.

OK...fight me! Tell me why I'm wrong, an idiot etc. I can take it!

[saywhat]

And I guess there will be an EP where we'll see what happend to Michael out there in the bushbush.
Just like the episode where we found out what Ana Lucia and her tail crew have been through

[ceci]

And which way should Henry take to escape? That would be far too risky to let him escape. Michael`s whole plan and his credibility would have been destroyed. I don`t think he will go that risky way. Besides it would be very contradictory of Michael letting Herny escape and then going to war and try to kill the others, wouldn`t it?
I guess it all depends on the time difference between Ana and Libby are shot and jack and co. get to the hatch. We don't know if Michael wants to kill the Others, he could be lying about everything he says he saw for all we know. I still think that he has an agreement with them and that he's leading the Losties to a trap

[saywhat]

Ana is dead, for sure.
I read an interview where them lost makers say that Michelle Rodriquez wanted to be only 1 season in Lost.
you can find the interview here.
http://community.tvguide.com/forum.jspa?forumID=700000049

[SnakesOnAPlane]

Apparently Michael is a much better shot than Sawyer at nearly pointblank range. I really think Michael believes they can rout the others and I think that he is willing to go to any length to do this. I don't think he's made a bargain with the others but they've let him see them, while he thought he was being ninja-esque.

I thought there was a nice contrast and parrallels to Michael's making problems by continuing to search for Walt who he wants to find so desprately and Christian who was hiding running away from his son/problems.

[Remus Lupin]

Michael's with them. He's probably made a deal about Walt, maybe. Or then he's just been made to see the "light". In any case, he's going to beat himself to death for killing Ana and Libby. He was HORRIFIED and SHAKING ALL OVER!!!

No matter what he did, I still can't hate him... I'm in a shock. A SHOCK. But I just... can't... hate... him.

[Nusent]

^^ Captian Obvious. :p

Michael did what he had to do, since he was desperate for his son... he would do anything in order to bring him back and that includes killing. What a big Douche bag.

[krakra]

I just cant see why the others would lead the losties into a trap? excperience from other episodes with The Others tells me that they shouldn't have any problems going at the beach and killing the losties there, they aren't even armed anymore thanks to Sawyer

[RockMancuso]

If Michael has indeed been "otherized", he probably told the story about the 22 others/tents/old people to make the Losties underestimate the others, so that they would try to attack them and be destroyed.

[Leoone]

What happend to the "clone theory"?

Maybe that was not Michael, maybe that was a cloned version of him :confused::eek:

[toomanyusernames]

I have a couple of problems with the theory that Michael made a deal with the Others so that they would release Walt if he got Henry out of the Hatch.

First, why would he stay behind after freeing Henry? If his goal was to see/get Walt, it would make more sense to free Henry and then go back to the Others with Henry. He could always return to the Losties later and say Henry had shot the women when he arrived at the Hatch and took him hostage in case he saw anyone else.

Second, if Henry was important enough to bargain over, why wouldn't he try to exchange Henry with the Others for his son with or without the group? If the Others were actually willing to let Walt go in exchange for Henry, he could have talked the Losties into it or taken him without killing someone or shooting himself.

Third, Michael is too much of a hot head to simply trust the Others to return Walt to them at some later date when Henry comes back to them. If he releases Henry then he has no leverage in obtaining his son back.

Fourth, why would he shoot himself? I know that he wants the Losties to think Henry did it (whether he releases Henry or kills him), but why not do what you are going to do (one way or the other) and then leave the Hatch? No one knew he was going back there and even if they did he could say that he found the women like that when he got there. Add to that the risk of dying due to blood loss, infection, Henry taking the gun and shooting you with it, etc. and it looks even less likely. H

Fifth, Michael's cover story -- the dirty, barefooted Others -- is too flimsy. Assume for a second that the Others caught him and either brainwashed or cut a deal with him. They would have to assume that Henry had told some of their secrets. The Losties have a number of "bad people" including a Torturer, former police officer, former violent drug runner, con man, bank robber, and chicken fryer in their group. The Others also would have to assume that the Losties are getting suspicous about who the Others are given their access to a boat, the Hatch, the food drop, etc. The cover story would have to take some of that into account. Instead, Michael gives an account of the Others that doesn't take any of this new information -- information that he would not have known but the Others would have -- into consideration. It seems more likely that Michael was making up a story on his own with old information rather than having been given a strong cover story to assist in his freeing Henry.



Don't get me wrong, it could turn out that the Others brainwashed or blackmailed Michael into releasing Henry. I would just be disappointed in the continuity problems this plot line would create.

[Nusent]

Some good questions there mate, Perhaps he did this in order to "propagandize" the losties into fighting the others with Michael... Since that the losties were not motivated to do this. The only way was to kill someone important to them in order to make them motivated for revenge, helping Michael because he knew he couldn't do this alone.

Okay, that was obvious...

Your question about how Michael could have talked the Losties into it or taken him without killing someone or shooting himself is a damn good question. I don't know...

[toomanyusernames]

I also have a problem with the theory that Michael is "the Man" in charge -- the evil genuis of which Henry speaks.

We know that approximately 10 years ago Michael was a struggling architect who couldn't sell his art work. His wife left him and he was struck and seriously injured by a car. Then, 10 years later, his ex dies and he picks up his weird son in Australia.

Granted we don't know what Michael did in the middle period, but I think it seems like a bit of a stretch for him to have assumed control over a group of people participating in a massive experiment funded by one or more multinational corporations and then ran that organization with such ruthlessness that he strikes fear into the hearts of those who cross him.

Plus, why would he (1) put himself at risk by getting on a plane that would be blown into a number of pieces and crash land on an island, (2) have his son kidnapped at gunpoint rather than simply turn him over to his associates, (3) risk drowning in the ocean/getting eaten by a shark after the boat was destroyed, or (4) ran away from the Losties for two weeks while major changes were afoot? Seems unlikely.

[codnchips]

My theory is that Michael framed Gale, he didn't like Ana too much so it didn't bother him killing her too much, I agree that he did look shocked when he shot Libby. I think it is the (Has Michael been "Otherized"?) theory with the most possible outcomes.

[jskim9]

Michael said "sorry" before shooting AL. Shooting Libby did not look premeditated (not the legal term), but he looked shocked when he did (although he did pull the trigger twice).

Go inside the mind of a murderer. You don't say "sorry" before killing someone if you're out of your mind or brainwashed. Michael knew what he was doing. He planned it (convincing AL to give him the gun), then he said "sorry" then pulled the trigger on her stomach.

I thought AL died a little too fast. My Navy friend told me that only "instant kills" are shots to the heart or head. everything else takes time for your vital organ to fail.

With regard to Libby, Michael obviously looked very surprised. Didn't mean to kill her, but then shot twice, but in very quick succession.

Then after the double murder, Michael doesn't look remorseful at all. For a normal person/father to have murdered two innocent people to save his son, you'd think he'd be extremely emotional. But he looks like a cool-calm heartless murderer.

I think there's some writing deficiencies, inconsistencies here. I don't think Michael is brainwashed, or else he wouldn't say sorry. And it sounded like he meant it. But if he's not brainwashed, he's too cold and calculated, not like an artist/construction worker/father. Writers better have a good explanation, or I'll be very disappointed.

Michael's never been the most intelligent person, although he built and designed a raft, that could have worked well. He also took the lead in rescuing Jack from the cave-in in Season 1. I seriously doubt he's the leader of the Others. Or else, they wouldn't waste this whole time, getting us to empathize with Michael.

This episode really ticks me off. If they wanted to get rid of AL and Libby, there's plenty of ways. Not use one of your most empathizable character, who's a father, to commit a double murder out of nowhere.

[Palmolive]

then he said "sorry" then pulled the trigger on her stomach.

I thought AL died a little too fast. My Navy friend told me that only "instant kills" are shots to the heart or head. everything else takes time for your vital organ to fail.

Michael didn't shoot Ana-Lucia in her stomach but in her chest right into the heart. At least it looked like the hole the bullet made was there.

[ElfieS]

He definately apologised before shooting AL so he most likely has been told to lead the Losties to the Others in exchange for Walt. He shot Libby because she was a witness to him shooting AL and he was shaking so much before he shot himself. Does this means Henry Gale has escaped?

[Kalo_Vast]

So what does that makes us who didnt "see it coming a mile away"? blind, or maybe idiots?

It makes us blind idiots, Dolphincrc. Don't worry, we're in the majority.

[websguy]

I don't know if I'm willing to lump him into the "other" side yet. He's turned that's for sure. But we all saw this comming right? I mean not like it was a HUGE surprise?! I love what this guy says about it in his thoughts about the episode:

http://www.ifmagazine.com/review.asp?article=1240

:shock:

[ShadedSkies]

I imagine that was the deal that was made: free Henry at any cost, and bring the rest of the crash survivors to us.. or Walt dies.

What I think too. It must be something like that anyway.

[flannelenigma]

Someone please answer this. Have the Others killed anyone? I don't think they have.

They certainly left Michael, Sawyer and Jin for dead.

[SnakesOnAPlane]

Ethan killed Scott (?) and Goodwin killed Nathan. The Others do kill people. Although maybe they were renegade others.

[surower]

How weird was that look Henry gave Michael after he had shot Ana Lucia? It was a "Mission Accomplished" look. Scenario: Henry was to be captured on purpose all along so that Michael could set him free, killing someone in the process (thereby starting a conflict). And given Gale's ealrier comments to Ana Lucia, the Other's wanted it to be her (supported by Michael's apperently sincere regret at shooting Libby). Weird.

[jonnyboyca]

i'm thinking Libby might be alive still...

in next weeks preview it shows Michael in the gun closet with his arm in a sling... if he blamed henry gale and if they believed him.. then why put him in the gun closet?.. unless Libby didnt die and told them Michael killed AL and let HG go...? hmmm...

[SnakesOnAPlane]

How weird was that look Henry gave Michael after he had shot Ana Lucia? It was a "Mission Accomplished" look. Scenario: Henry was to be captured on purpose all along so that Michael could set him free, killing someone in the process (thereby starting a conflict). And given Gale's ealrier comments to Ana Lucia, the Other's wanted it to be her (supported by Michael's apperently sincere regret at shooting Libby). Weird.

Mmm I actually sort of really like this idea. Lets not forget who purported the whole trade idea in the first place. It wasn't Jack's idea and if indeed Henry intended all along to help Jack think of a "trade" and then play along when Michael came back.

[kristanel]

We know AL's dead and that Micael lives from the preview. But what about Libby. I for one think she lives b/c her story line isn't cleared up yet. Hurley still needs to find out she was in the mental hospital with him, which he will eventually.

Further, my belief is that Michael DID see Walt with the Others and they told him they would give him Walt in exchange for Henry. Why do they want Henry back since we know that Henry thinks he'll be killed? Maybe that's why... to kill him. Maybe make an example to everyone: "fail your mission, this is what happens..."

Michael shoots himself, therefore leaving himself incapable of escaping with Henry, if that's what Henry does, which I'm still not sure about. If he goes back to the Others, we assume they kill him. If he stays with the Losties, then they kill him for all the shit he's done.

Anyway, I think Michael stays behind because he doesn't want to get caught in the middle of an impending battle: Others v Losties. During the fray, he can get Walt without the Losties getting suspicious. I highly doubt he will be staying in the Others' camp b/c if they're after certain types of people (good people), Michael doesn't fit the profile. Too hot headed.

Anyway, I hope to see some good stuff next week.

[Nusent]

Toomanyusernames, You're saying that Michael had a 10 year gap... This probably will be revealed in episode 22 "Three Minutes" Which has the flashbacks of Michael...

[Kalo_Vast]

I also have a problem with the theory that Michael is "the Man" in charge -- the evil genuis of which Henry speaks.

We know that approximately 10 years ago Michael was a struggling architect who couldn't sell his art work. His wife left him and he was struck and seriously injured by a car. Then, 10 years later, his ex dies and he picks up his weird son in Australia.

Granted we don't know what Michael did in the middle period, but I think it seems like a bit of a stretch for him to have assumed control over a group of people participating in a massive experiment funded by one or more multinational corporations and then ran that organization with such ruthlessness that he strikes fear into the hearts of those who cross him.

Plus, why would he (1) put himself at risk by getting on a plane that would be blown into a number of pieces and crash land on an island, (2) have his son kidnapped at gunpoint rather than simply turn him over to his associates, (3) risk drowning in the ocean/getting eaten by a shark after the boat was destroyed, or (4) ran away from the Losties for two weeks while major changes were afoot? Seems unlikely.

I agree with you 100% on this. I think there's a better chance Walt is controlling operations than Michael. Keep in mind, i'm not saying there's a chance Walt is controlling anything. I'm just saying it's a bit ridiculous to even entertain the idea that Michael is doing anything other than trying to get his son back.

[ElfieS]

I think Libby may still be alive too otherwise Hurley would be more upset in the preview. Saying that there is also a clip of him holding someones hand and crying but then maybe he's just trying to urge her back to health.

And it hasn't been said anywhere that Cynthis Watros wouldn't be in the finale whereas a spokesperson said that Michelle Rodriguez's jail time would not interfere with the finale filming in Hawaii ie. implying that she wasn't in it.

[Prismaticus]

Someone please answer this. Have the Others killed anyone? I don't think they have.

The Others left quite a few dead Tailies in the jungle back in the early part of this season... and that's in addition to the ones Goodman and Nathan killed.

Someone set up a scorecard for the confused! :D

[Leap of Faith]

I think that Michael must have been brainwashed or something by the Others, but I don't think that he is actually one of them. D: He was such a nice character, and he still seemed to have some control about him, e.g. apologizing to Ana Lucia and looking very, very distraught.

I feel really bad for him right about now.

[JLorenzo]

What if it wasn't Michael, but a clone of Michael? Eko mentions in the coming weeks that, "we are being tested." With all those beards and things the others have, it is conceivable that it isn't really Michael. It took him a moment to recall John's name when he woke up in the hatch? Hmmm

[parallex]

I believe michael is on his own agenda, al and libby to him are expendable to get his 'boy' back! I don't think he's been got at by the others but is trying to incite jack locke and the rest to attack the the others just so he can get Walt back, so he's just gonna blame henry for killing the ladies and shooting him!!! And who's jack gonna believe michael or henry if they dont get back and kill henry anyway!

[rachelmari]

Ok, I got something totally different from this. I thought that Michael did it as a form of revenge... he KNEW that if he killed Ana Lucia and then shot himself (and Libby just came along and got in the way) that the rest of the Losties would come and kill Gale, and then he KNEW withought a shadow of a doubt that they would join him in his quest to go kill him.
However, one thing makes me think Im wrong, and thats that he said that they were all dressed in shaggy clothes and living in tents. Then it cuts to Kates face, and its like 'wtf?' becase she knows they dress up- and they wouldnt look like that all the time.
I really dont know whats up, But i know that in my mind, they MORE than made up for last weeks shameful thing.

[parallex]

So perhaps they knew michael was on to them and put on a show so he would think that they live like this 'kinda simple' knowing that he would tell the other losties to provoke an attack, so that they can continue their agenda to get arron while the camp is left practiclly unguarded?

[Worst Tiler]

The Others left quite a few dead Tailies in the jungle back in the early part of this season... and that's in addition to the ones Goodman and Nathan killed.

Someone set up a scorecard for the confused! :D

I think it is you that is confused.

There were NO dead tail section people in the jungle. the only dead body in the jungle was Goodwin, whom Ana Lucia killed.

We have no proof at all that the Others killed anyone they took - on the contrary, Goodwin says that haven't been harmed.

the only person who we know was killed by an other was Scott..or Steve..whichever, by Ethan on the beach.

Nathan didn't kill anyone....Goodwin killed Nathan.

So...we have two people that the Others killed (Nathan and Scott/steve)...and there have been 4 Others that the survivors killed (Eko killed two - Ana killed two).

[Mystical]

In answer to the question of the title, yes without a doubt. There is no other logical reason as to why he'd shoot Ana and spare Henry. It was obvious to me from the moment he began talking to Jack, Ana, Kate and locke that he was lying - and Ana, Locke and Kate all knew it.

Ana happened to be the one in the hatch when he woke up, and apart from the fact she was going to kill Henry, I think he realised she knew he was lying.

I can't believe he did it :rant:

[kermit]

well i was very shocked at what michael did,

why did he need to kill them? you could free henry lots of diffirent ways without killing anyone. I think its extreme and doesnt suit his character. How about this>

michael takes the gun from anal & goes into the cell with henry, he comes out points the gun and tells ana to stay back & that hes "doing it for his boy" then he makes his escape with henry to be reunited with walt.

i mean killing 2 people was there a need? theyre going to have to come up with something good to explain his actions.

[zepplinmike]

If not for Jack, Charlie would have been killed by Ethan as well. And don't forget the real Henry Gale... So that's 4 total that we know the Others killed or left for dead.

[mrsha007]

i have a feeling that mike isnt brainwashed, he is playing out his own plan. maybe he is goning to set it up to look like henry escaped and killed off libby and ana, and mike is gonna use that as reasoning to attack the group of others where he thinks walt is kept.

i dont know, just throwing that out there.

[hlasher]

So, for the question of whether Michael became one of the "others", is their leader, or is just trying to make Jack/Locke/Kate et al mad enough to go after Walt, one thing keeps bothering me....
If Michael just hatched this plan himself, with no guidance from the "others", why would he shoot Ana Lucia, then Libby, then go into the hatch and immediately shoot hiimself in the arm - WITHOUT EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO HENRY??
I would think its easier to explain, "hey, by the way, I killed everyone in the hatch, you need to get out of here and go back to your people" when you were holding a gun at someone rather than when you were wounded, in pain, bleeding, and probably unable to keep control of the gun/protect yourself. If Henry didn't know who Michael was, he could have shot him and then escaped, or stuck around and told people what happened. It seems to me that he at least knew who Michael was or was in on the plan - whether Michael is their "leader" or not. Thoughts?

-first time poster-

[Obywan]

I think i have a good question: How are Jack-Locke and the others supposed to believe that Henry Gale shoot Michael in a shoulder, got out of the prison, and THEN shot ana lucia? This means that she was comfortably sitting on the couch all the time waiting only to be shot! Mhh this story sounds a little "fake". And we're still expecting to hear how henry gale got out.

[SweetRapture71]

It seems to me like maybe Michael made a deal with the Others, i.e. "We'll give you Walt back if you kill Ana-Lucia.."

I don't know. But may I say, after the end of this one, my entire family was clustered around the television going :thud:

[bubbajo]

I think Michael found the others but either he's lying about them being primitive and only haveing 2 guns because they want him to bring the losties to them, OR they knew he was coming and set up a scene to make it look like they wore rags etc.
they either blackmailed him into working for them ( and as Ana Lucia killed some of them they wanted her dead-libby was an accident) in exchange for walt. Or they have brainwashed him into becoming one of them and helping them.

When Henry saw him, for a second i thought maybe Michael was the 'leader' and always had been as Henry's reaction seemed like he wanted to bow down to him or something. BUt when he shot himself it seems like that is obviously not the case. I think it will be interesting next week to see if Libby survives and what she says.

[Mystical]

I think Michael found the others but either he's lying about them being primitive and only haveing 2 guns because they want him to bring the losties to them, OR they knew he was coming and set up a scene to make it look like they wore rags etc.
they either blackmailed him into working for them ( and as Ana Lucia killed some of them they wanted her dead-libby was an accident) in exchange for walt. Or they have brainwashed him into becoming one of them and helping them.

When Henry saw him, for a second i thought maybe Michael was the 'leader' and always had been as Henry's reaction seemed like he wanted to bow down to him or something. BUt when he shot himself it seems like that is obviously not the case. I think it will be interesting next week to see if Libby survives and what she says.

Imho, he was quite clearly lying - and both Ana and Kate knew it. Ana just happened to be the one who was around in the hatch and trying to kill Henry. If it had been Kate, I'd be willing to bet Michael would've shot Kate too. The fact it was Ana just makes it better for the Others.

I think he's working in exchange for Walt, but has also been brainwashed to a certain extent so he can manage to turn the survivors he spent 40 days survivng with over to the Others.

My reasoning is that he shot himself as a cover-up. Henry will have gone by the time Jack etc. arrive, and it'll look like he's shot 3 people - no-one will ever supect Michael unless Libby wakes up.

[UndrTheSpotlight]

i have a feeling that mike isnt brainwashed, he is playing out his own plan. maybe he is goning to set it up to look like henry escaped and killed off libby and ana, and mike is gonna use that as reasoning to attack the group of others where he thinks walt is kept.

i dont know, just throwing that out there.
I think the same thing about Michaels motives

[Phelps81]

This is my first post so forgive me if I'm being redundant.

Michael shoots himself and frees Henry because he believes it is the only way to get back Walt. The deaths of Libby and Ana Lucia will galvanize the group into going after the camp Michael described. What I don't understand is how Michael knew that Ana would give him the combination.

Also- I'm leaning towards the idea that the island is a grand experiment, meant to bring out people's true nature- show what people to revert to when removed from civilization. The crash victims are a mix of "good" and "bad" people. Henry calls Locke "good", but Ana Lucia was one of the "bad" ones. While she does not kill Henry herself, she does give Michael the combination and gun. She may as well have killed him. Michael is sthe example of what a person will do, what terrible extremes they'll go to for family. I can't decide what Henry meant when telling Ana Lucia that the man in charge was wrong about her.

My second theory is that they are part of a survival of the fittest experiment. A test to see what kind of person, greedy, evil, kind, strong etc- will stay alive the longest. But I don't understand how the island could make Locke be able to walk, or cancer to disappear. grrrrrr.

[pla]

maybe michel found out that AL was one of the others, she only intended to shoot her, he was shaky and nervous and reacted when libby screamed his name, accidently pulling the trigger?

[bubbajo]

I don't think he meant to shoot Libby- u could clearly see from his face that it was on reaction and an accident. I like the idea that he planned this to frame henry so that the Losties will get angry and do something. But would Michael really kill someone on his side willingly to get his son back and not wait for the group to act? its definately gonna play out as if Henry did it. I think if Michale is found out it will be due to either LIbby surviving or Locke questioning y Henry would do it.

[lykeomgzlol25]

I'm not sure if this has been said but...

Maybe the others told Mike that if he killed AnaL for them, he would get Walt back. Seeing as she's killed two of them, they might have wanted her dead.

I don't know. It was just an idea I had about Mike/Others.

[razgriz]

I'm not sure if this has been said but...

Maybe the others told Mike that if he killed AnaL for them, he would get Walk back. Seeing as she's killed two of them, they might have wanted her dead.

I don't know. It was just an idea I had about Mike/Others.

That seems to make the most sense to me. Maybe he was brainwashed.

[BattleRoyale]

That seems to make the most sense to me. Maybe he was brainwashed.

I don't think he was brainwashed because he was clearly conflicted and even sad about killing Ana. It seemed like he had no other choice, so I think that he made a deal with the Others in order to get Walt back or something.

[mazaarin]

I think i have a good question: How are Jack-Locke and the others supposed to believe that Henry Gale shoot Michael in a shoulder, got out of the prison, and THEN shot ana lucia? This means that she was comfortably sitting on the couch all the time waiting only to be shot! Mhh this story sounds a little "fake". And we're still expecting to hear how henry gale got out.

Made a thread about this, so totaly ridiculous! Couldn´t agree more.

If you belive in the story Michael is going to make up you are either worlds dumbest or just brain dead.

[BattleRoyale]

Made a thread about this, so totaly ridiculous! Couldn´t agree more.

If you belive in the story Michael is going to make up you are either worlds dumbest or just brain dead.

Or it had to be this way for the story to continue the way the writers planned it.:rolleyes:

[pla]

also im pretty sure that there is 2 groups of others, one whit scientists and another whit this jungle boys ;)

[pshkbb]

the other thing I think we all overlooked is that:

a. the others obvious dress up in the rag garb as we have seen them do it before so they may have been putting on a show for Michael to convince him they are harmless as they'd never show him their full hand

b. Michael was gone when Claire led Kate et al to the med hatch so he does not know that Locke, Jack etc... know the others are more sofisticated than the hutch and barefoot vibe they are playing at.....

just my ten cents.....

[bigmacsbabey]

Yea i dont think micheals and other , he made a deal with the others so that he could get walt back i think

[Mishell]

If he was going to kill him though you'd think he'd do that before shooting himself in the arm though wouldn't you? Otherwise he'd risk the chance of Henry jumping him while he was injured and escaping.

So this is what I'm wondering. Did he do it to set Henry up, and he doesn't care what they do to him. Or did he do it to make it look like Henry just broke out - and he gets away to go back to the others?

[Darude]

Sorry if this counts as spam but WTF happened at the end of the episode????????

[pla]

wierd though, cos he will have to give henry the gun before jack and the rest arrives, how can he trust an other whit a gun when his hurt. IF he dont knew who that other was from the start, and the other way..

[GoateMan]

My theory-

Michael was told he could see, perhaps interact with Walt if he liberated Gale. He was aided in devising a plan that would get people out of the hatch, then he would free Gale. He shot himself in order to make it look as though Gale had gotten a gun and shot his way out.

All this to say, Michael is a mother-f-ing douche bag that should be killed.

[HermS]

I don't think he was brainwashed because he was clearly conflicted and even sad about killing Ana. It seemed like he had no other choice, so I think that he made a deal with the Others in order to get Walt back or something.

True enough, also when Claire was brainwashed (Maternity Leave) she was clearly under the influence of some heavy duty drugs and Michael doesn't seem strung out at all.

[antera309]

I think he's just being manipulated by the Others, Walt obviously being the collateral.

[Ana Costa]

I don't think Michael has become and "Other".

What I think happened was this:
Mike wants to convince everyone to go back with him to rescue Walt.
So far he has only convinved Jack and Kate. He had no idea there was an "Other" prisoner in the hatch. When Ana Lucia told him about the prisoner he saw the perfect opportunity to CONVINCE everyone that THEY ALL NEED to go after the "Others' to get Walt.

WHY did he kill Ana Lucia ? Because he rapidly realized that if he killed Ana Lucia, injure himself and let the prisoner free, EVERYONE would AGREE that they now NEED to go after the Others BEFORE they come after them. They "now" need to exterminate them, since they have proven once again that they are dangerous. By calling an army he will have a chance to get Walt back. I don't think he made any kind of deal with the Others.

Libby walked in and was killed accidently. It wasn't how Micahel planned it but it will look even better for him. It ill be easier to convince everyone to go after the Others after they managed to injure him and kill not only one but two of them! So Mike's instant plan turned out even better than he could have expected.

Will everyone believe in his story ? Not everyone. But I think most will, and those that do believe him will enter the "army" against the Others.

I think Libby isn't dead yet, or maybe Ana Lucia is the one to survive longer. Either one will still be alive for a few hours but will end up dying before having the chance of telling anyone that it was Mike that shot them.

Lock once again was some how responsible for what happened. He didn't tell Jack about the little "chat" he had with Henry, nor the FACT that Henry tried to kill Ana. When he finally realized he should tell Jack, it was too late. He "bought" the Henry story that he is special and that Henry was sent for him. He let his ego fool him, (that was the plan) and now Ana Lucia and Libby have payed for it. Mike would not have had the opportunity to do what he did if he wasn't left alone with Henry and AL.

[CommMajor101]

i think that this episode lends credence to the idea that there are multiple groups of others, possibly working in opposition to each other. gale said that TWO of his people were killed, accounting for goodwin and ethan, but not for the guys whose heads Eko bashed in. say the boat-riding others are enemies of the rag-wearing, jungle-creeping others... maybe they don't have the numbers to clash with them head on, so they are using michael to get the losties to do their dirty work for them


Only, remember when Kate found the rag clothing with the beard and glue in a locker in a hatch? Well the beard guy was one of the boat-riding others. So, I think they are the same group.

[MotoSoldier]

Michael indicates 'Others' are weak, makes it look like 'Others' have come to free Gale and killed people in the process, thus forcing the survivors to stage a full attack against said 'Others'.

Michael could be acting on his own will or through intimidation by the 'Others'.

[LittleRich]

What an episode, absolutely nuts... I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but I watched the episode twice and the second time Michael made quite a few references to 'him' and 'his' when he gave his little speach on the others so it's possible that he has met the head honcho of the others some where along the line.

Also he never came back with the gun he went out with, and quite possibly came back in different clothing (someone will need to check the episode when he left, but I'm pretty sure it's different).

Definately something going on though, not coincidence at all that he turned up when Jack was yelling.

[ericagainstthem]

I think it is you that is confused.

There were NO dead tail section people in the jungle. the only dead body in the jungle was Goodwin, whom Ana Lucia killed.

We have no proof at all that the Others killed anyone they took - on the contrary, Goodwin says that haven't been harmed.

the only person who we know was killed by an other was Scott..or Steve..whichever, by Ethan on the beach.

Nathan didn't kill anyone....Goodwin killed Nathan.

So...we have two people that the Others killed (Nathan and Scott/steve)...and there have been 4 Others that the survivors killed (Eko killed two - Ana killed two).

It is also implied that The Others killed the "real" Henry Gale (remember back to what Sayid found written on the paper money).

Anyway, Michael did not act as someone who has been brainwashed. He seemed more desperate and nervous than anything else. That to me indicates that he has made some kind of deal with The Others, and his end of the bargain is freeing "Henry Gale." There also seemed to be a look of recognition between Henry and Michael.

A few notes.. Kate obviously realizes there are problems with Michael's story. If I remember correctly, the path that he described is NOT the path that Jack, Locke, and Sawyer (and Kate) took when they were tracking him. And then there is the bit about their "primitive" clothing and their lack of guns. They have more guns than what Michael stated if you only count the weapon (1) used to fire on Jin and Sawyer at the end of season 1, and the multiple guns (4?) confiscated from Sawyer, Locke, and Jack this season.

Kate notices these inconsistencies but Jack does not.. he wants a confrontation with The Others and Michael's story is EXACTLY what he wants to hear.

[LittleRich]

I'll back you on the look of recognition definately, Henry sort of looked at him as if he knew he was an 'other' or been sent by them but he could have also known that he was Walt's father and was prepared for what he thinks is about to happen?

[BattleRoyale]

I'll back you on the look of recognition definately, Henry sort of looked at him as if he knew he was an 'other' or been sent by them but he could have also known that he was Walt's father and was prepared for what he thinks is about to happen?

I think he was just confused. He also cares about his own fate no matter how calm be was before.