Grand Theory: Flashbacks are Fakes

[St. Lo]

The Flashbacks of the "survivors" are not real. They are put together by the characters or induced in some manner as the days go along. Events, bits of luggage, and other characters trigger them to create memories. Even the survivors' being on the Oceanic Flight is a false memory. (c'mon...a plane splits in half...and people survive...but no one has a cell phone?)

The false memories, powered by the suggestions in their environment, explain the "impossible" aspects of them: Sawyer meeting Jack's Dad...Hurley owning the box company that Locke worked for....Shannon's father being the one that Jack watched die in the hospital...the numbers being the ones that Hurley played in Lotto....

It also explains Locke's sudden cure of his paralysis, Jack's wife's impossible recovery from her paralysis, Jack's meeting of Desmond, etc.

Further, no one (except sort of Sayid searching for the Iraqi woman) has anyone back home that they are yearning for. No spouses, no children (no I don't think Sun is yearning much to see her father).

The plane was crashed on the island to enhance the illusion, for which the survivors (likely test subjects) were subjected to, then the survivors were placed there. Ethan (victim/survivor of a passed experiment?) tried to muck things up by inserting himself into the latest experiment, but got caught. Naturally, he and the other...er...Others are trying to save the children from the ongoing experiments.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

THEORY UPDATE:

I also believe that Desmond is only the first of the "breakdowns" in flashbacks to occur. Obviously the odds of Jack re-meeting him on the island are astronomically small, but is clue of saying "see you in another life" is a givaway. Desmond had something to do with Jack's "true" life. Desmond and others from the flashbacks will start appearing on the show...possibly some are others?

A few folks I predict that we'll meet on the island:

1 - Kate's childhood boyfriend Tom. The little toy plane is some kind of clue there...
2 - Hurley's friend Johnny, who he lost when "everything changed"

THEORY UPDATE:

See REPLY #67 for a note of the Time Problem in Episode 2.01

[JoeyRation]

Actually they are not Flashbacks, they are "Back-Stories"
The Characters don't stop in the middle of the action to remember the old good times, but you get to see a part of their life that connect with what you are going to see in the moment after or the situation in the whole epi

[The_Monkey]

(c'mon...a plane splits in half...and people survive...but no one has a cell phone?)

They have. Boone is seen trying to call on it in the Pilot.

[quicksand30]

In the pilot, one of the background characters is seen with a cell phone. He doesn't appear to be getting a signal.

[St. Lo]

Dang it...okay, fair enough on the cell phone bit.

[St. Lo]

I also take exception to the "Back-Story" explanation. Mostly because of Sawyer's past. The character Sawyer assumed the identity of the con-man that targeted his parents. Thus in his memories, he superimposes his face on the con-man's. An objective "Back-story" would have shown us the actual man.

[jayk1998]

I really like that theory, but Charlie's withdrawal seemed to be too real for his addiction to have been a fabricated memory.

[shred]

Didn't we just talk about this?

[hoo-hoo]

how far-fecht can you go??

[St. Lo]

It's a lot less far fetched than the winning lottery numbers being stamped on the side of the hatch :)

[PopsKrock]

How bad a show would it be if half of what you saw is completely fake and has nothing to do with what is really going on.

The interconnectedness of the characters is part of what makes the show so interesting. To me it seems very Altman-ish and I like that.

[St. Lo]

It might be really cool if what we see in the flashbacks are clue to what is going on leaking into their subconsious. Also, they might all have other "pre-crash" relationships with each other that might be interesting.

[samikins723]

It's a lot less far fetched than the winning lottery numbers being stamped on the side of the hatch :)

Maybe that would be far fetched if Hurley had plucked those numbers from his head, but he didn't. Those numbers originated with that island.

[Dennie_Hebels]

Then the others wouldn't only be trying to save the children since they also abducted grown-ups from the tailies camp. And why would the others have a list of people who are "good" persons. What is it with the "bad" persons that doesn't make them worth saving from the so called experiments they are subjected to?

And that "false" memory Sawyer had about Jacks dad. Didn't he have that flashback before he even new Jacks dad was in Sydney. If I'm not mistaken Sawyer remembered his encounter with Jacks dad before Jack told him about his father.

Also, if Locke only thinks he was paralyzed before the crash and that it is just a false memory, why does he suddenly have problems walking and feeling pain in his legs in that episode where Locke and Boone find the Beechcraft plane?

I could go on and on with these inconsistencies regarding your theory. I'm not saying I think it's a bad theory, it's actually quite original, but it just doesn't hold up.
Besides I think the viewers wouldn't like the idea of having watched hours and hours of flashbacks that are just fake. And the Lost creators know this too. I don't think they would disappoint their audience like this.

[ctrlz]

The Flashbacks of the "survivors" are not real.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
I've always thought this was possible. The flashbacks are, I think, best described as daydreams. They are not necessarily accurate "backstories."

What we need is two people who remember a shared past to discuss it in specific terms. Do Sun and Jin remember the shared events in their lives the same way? Do Rose and Bernard? I always thought Sawyer's encounter with Christian Shepherd might have been a fabricated memory based on some general information he picked up overhearing something. And all the interconnections that pop up in the backstories become more unlikely as their number continues to grow. Shannon's dad smashed his SUV into Jack's future wife? C'mon.

As I said in another thread, I think it would be VERY interesting if Bernard actually ended up HATING chocolate or, even worse, was allergic to it. That to me would be far more interesting than seeing Shannon get shot.

[St. Lo]

Good points. Maybe some were good people in their real lives, and some were bad, and the others know who is who.

At any rate the main point of my theory is that as intelligently as show is written, it seems awfully implausible for all the flashbacks to be accurate with all their coincidenses. For example...granted the Numbers came from the island...but what is more plausible: the numbers mysteriously manipulated the Lottery drawing in the US; or that Hurley is inventing a reality in his mind with the influance of the numbers? Or: Sure, one person (say Locke) mysteriously is cured of paralysis....but two??? (Jack wife)

I think Locke gave us the hint to all this in the 1st season when he was pointing out to Jack the improbability of them surviving a plane crash with such minor injuries.

[Dennie_Hebels]

I admit it would be more logical for them to have false memories if you take the Vulcan approach :) Still I would feel a little cheated if this turned out to be the case.

[ctrlz]

Good I think Locke gave us the hint to all this in the 1st season when he was pointing out to Jack the improbability of them surviving a plane crash with such minor injuries.
Yes. It will be intersting to see if the reunited groups of survivors share the details of their crash experiences.

We have yet to see a continuous shot of the plane falling out of the sky and someone we recognize coming out of the wreckage.

And I think there was in-your-face foreshadowing in the very first episode, when the characters discussed how they should all be dead.

[Maja]

How bad a show would it be if half of what you saw is completely fake and has nothing to do with what is really going on.

The interconnectedness of the characters is part of what makes the show so interesting. To me it seems very Altman-ish and I like that.

I agree. I would be very disapointed if the flashbacks were not real.

What would be a meaning and purpose of those "false memories"?

[St. Lo]

Dunno. Maybe to erase a painful past or rehabilitate a violent one? Or maybe make the people "lost" by having them forget others. It could be that the coincidences in the memories represent real relationships the characters had with each other?
I think the fact that no one seems to have and spouses or kids that are missing them is relevant. I mean, in every flashback at the airport, no one was there to see anyone off... how weird is that?

[Devil's Espresso]

I've decided that if they cheap out on us by saying it's all fake, I'm not watching the show anymore.

That would just be a really poor way to answer things about the show. But whatever.

I don't see how you guys are getting this anyway, and it would be really dumb if they were all cryogenically frozen or something, thus meaning the crash was faked, and they all had implanted memories. I'm a theorist, etc. but people overanalyze this show way too much.
To me it's just like... "OMG!! There are character connections!! DOOD!! That means it's all made up!!! OMGZ!!!!!"
That's what I feel other people seem to be thinking, but to me, it's just... "Maybe these people were picked because they are connected."

I could tell you some really freaky stories about intimate connections with people I don't know, but I'll save you the trouble reading them. :)

And yes, shred, this probably gets discussed at least ten times a day.

[BigYelk]

This is more of a question because I cannot remember exactly what was said. But I saw the episode with John in season two with Katey Seagal as Helen before I saw the episode in Season one where he is sitting in his bed and the phone sex operator he is speaking with is named Helen and it doesn't seem that they have ever had prior contact the way he speaks to her. Does anyone else notice this.

[Devil's Espresso]

BigYelk... that's because they're not the same person.

[St. Lo]

I'm pretty sure the phone-sex ladies will let you call them whatever you like...

[ctrlz]

What would be a meaning and purpose of those "false memories"?
It might be a grand sociological experiment. Can you take a group of strangers and give them a common past they never had?

I actually would prefer if many things that happen on this show are not by design. So maybe the people who faked the crash didn't know this island had Dharma, the Others, Lostzilla, and all the other amenities. The story of the crash survivors, the Others, the Black Rock, Dharma... these are all different stories that just happen to be coinciding. It's not one big Master Plan.

We stll don't know what "the sickness" is. It might relate to a loss of memory and change of perception. So the idea of false memories being implanted through a one-time "seeding" process may be wrong. It may be something that happens continuosly over time. Maybe that's why the whole island is the "quarantined" zone. Hey, it might even explain why these whackos always forget to ask follow-up questions.

[Devil's Espresso]

I'm really still confused as to why so many people seem so sure that the memories are all fake, and none of it really happened. If anyone can name one thing theorists have been right on so far, I'll name two million we've been wrong on. I say we should watch the show before deciding that they all have fake memories.

I think that maybe this theory originally sprang from people who hate the back stories, trying to make them more exciting to themselves.

[St. Lo]

Espresso - are you sure you're not a writer for ABC? Anyway, I think the flashbacks are still cool...because they hide clues to the character's "real" lives. I'm guessing this will really ramp up the DVD sales of the old episodes some day when everyone wants to watch them all again to look for the clues.

[Devil's Espresso]

... haha.

That comment has become my good chuckle for the day. ;)

I agree... I think the flashbacks are important, and the way people keep blowing them off kind of surprises me. Someone did a pole on another lost forum about what people thought of flashbacks. And I think more than half the people who voted said they were useless and they hated them.

[Dennie_Hebels]

I don't understand why people would not like the flashbacks. They reveal a lot of information about the characters, why they act like they do, why they were on the plane. The flashbacks are related to what happens. For example, we would have never known Locke was paralyzed if it wasn't for that flashback with the wheelchair (which I think was a great episode).
There may be some kind of memory implantation going on, but maybe that is more related to the dreams or visions they have and not the flashbacks. For example, Jack seeing his dad, Locke dreaming about the plane, Shannon and Sayid seeing Walt, etcetera.

[St. Lo]

Couple of other supporting clues from Season #1 to this theory:

1) Boone thinks he's a trained lifeguard, but nearly drowns swimming out to the girl.

2) Jack flashbacks to arguing about getting a body in a coffin aboard a plane....yeah, right. Like a morgue is going to release a body to an individual to travel around with. C'mon....

3) When exactly did Sun squeeze in all those lessons to give her perfect English? Jin speaks English too, he just doesn't remember that he does. You watch...(and I know you will)

[Dennie_Hebels]

I must say you keep coming up with some convincing arguments ;) Throw a few more like them at me and maybe I'll be totally convinced :)

[Devil's Espresso]

My sister thinks she's a trained lifeguard, too, but she's afraid to give CPR. And yeah, she has a license.

I think that was just something thrown in to show how incompetent and stupid Boone could be sometimes.

Um... Jack wasn't "travelling with the body". A Morgue would release the body to him if he was taking it back home for burial. What was he supposed to do? Fly home and say, "Aw gee mom, he died, but I didn't bring him back, so he's buried half way around the world"?

... I don't think Jin speaks English. It's kind of hard to forget that you speak a language. That's like me forgetting I speak Spanish, which I've been learning since age six. Sorry, not buying it. And also on this matter, the actress who plays Sun speaks perfect, casual English, so it'd be kind of hard for them to teach her how to only speak poor English. It would slip at some point. Remember, they're actors, and this is a tv show. :)

And I thought the producers said there would be absolutely no sci-fi on the show. Last time I checked, sticking needles in peoples' heads to brainwash them (or however you think these memories were "implanted") is science fiction.

EDIT:

I have a couple questions to ask, too...

Why spend zillions of dollars implanting memories into peoples' heads only to have them placed on a strange desert island and killed?

And... pray tell, -who- would have done this implanting of memories? Hopefully we can come up with a science lab that possesses the limitless powers written of in science fiction books.

[St. Lo]

Hey now...I can be objective. Here's some probs with my own theory:
1) Jin really does know how to fish
2) Locke really does have a Kidney scar
3) Charlie really does know how to play guitar (sort of)
4) and of course, Jack really is a doctor.

But I still think false/altered memories are a lot more probable than Sawyer sleeping with the Lottery girl in a scheme to get Hurley to win the Lottery with the numbers he happened to hear in the looney bin....

[Devil's Espresso]

Heheh, Dom Monaghan knows how to play guitar. ;)

Yeah, those are problems, but I suppose, hypothetically, according to your theory, they could have implanted the knowhow to be a doctor, they could have implanted the knowhow to fish, they could have cut Locke's side to make a Kidney scar.

But anyway... who ever said that he slept with the lottery girl as part of a scheme?
It wouldn't surprise me if half of Sawyer's connections spring up because he slept with someone.

[JoeyRation]

ummm
who said that the girl Sawyer slept with is the lotto girl?
Lotto girl was Brittany Perrineau and the girl Sawyer slept with was Kristin Richardson

[ileslie]

I think that we see both. There was a Season 1 episode with Claire and the psychic, the fellow that kept telling Claire she had to raise the child herself. Anyway, on one one of her visits Claire gets upset and leaves in a hurry. She goes out the door of the house and it closes. The camera then moves in on the psychic's face. Now who is remembering that? Not Claire, since she doesn't have eyes in the back of her head which can see through walls and doors. The camera is just trying to show us how the psychic feels. This is backstory for us - clear and simple. But this backstory is motivated by Claire's memory of this time in her life.

Lost is not a computer game. There is way to much in the way of theory and speculation that is being built on unbelievably strict interpretation of events in the show.

[Devil's Espresso]

"Lost is not a computer game. There is way to much in the way of theory and speculation that is being built on unbelievably strict interpretation of events in the show."

Thank you ileslie! That was better than I ever could have said it. And you are totally right, I listened to a PodCast with the producers speaking yesterday... and they seemed agog at how much people were reading into Lost.

[shred]

St. Lo, this is not the spoilers forum. Please do not post spoilers here. Do not double post. Read the forum rules (link below.)

[St. Lo]

Ooops...Sorry. Anyway, to answer Joey and Espresso's question, Brittany Perrineau played both the lottery girl, and Sawyer's one-night stand girl... I guess that's all I can say without this being a Spoiler.

[JoeyRation]

Kristin Richardson was Sawyer's girl, not Brittany ;)

http://www.alanmercer.com/images/Kristin%20395%2018.jpg

[St. Lo]

oh for goodness sake....
Brittany Perrineau was in two episodes on TV as the Lotto girl (#1.18 and #2.4) and also in episode called "Outlaws" #1.16 as the girl that Sawyer is bringing into his hotel room before he's interrupted by Hibbs. If you don't believe me check out www.imdb.com or a number of other spoiler sites, etc.

[ctrlz]

Here are some probs with my own theory:
2) Locke really does have a Kidney scar

If you wanna get technical, you can strike #2.

To paraphrase the late, great Don Adams:
"99, that's the second smallest renal xplant scar I've ever seen!":D

[St. Lo]

One more supported tidbit:
"Randy" is both the annoying boss at Mr. Cluck for Hurley, and for Locke at the box company (yeah yeah..Hurley later owns the box company). Figure the odds of two of this guy's former-underlings being on the same plane. Naw....he's an annoying figure in both Hurley and Locke's "real" lives. Maybe some anal scientist or something.

[samikins723]

oh for goodness sake....
Brittany Perrineau was in two episodes on TV as the Lotto girl (#1.18 and #2.4) and also in episode called "Outlaws" #1.16 as the girl that Sawyer is bringing into his hotel room before he's interrupted by Hibbs. If you don't believe me check out www.imdb.com or a number of other spoiler sites, etc.

You're definitely right about that.

[ctrlz]

:( Why spend zillions of dollars implanting memories into peoples' heads only to have them placed on a strange desert island and killed?

And... pray tell, -who- would have done this implanting of memories? Hopefully we can come up with a science lab that possesses the limitless powers written of in science fiction books.
The second question can be answered with meaningless TV gibberish. Since Lost only claims to be based on pseudo-science I think they could subject patients to any number of drugs and use repetition to induce a false memory. A key criterion for pre-selection of test subjects would be susceptibility to the whole process. Just like only 20% of the population can be hypnotized, there is no reason to believe every subject will achieve the same degree of false memory implantation.

The first question is more important, I think. Why bother with any of this? And who would pay? If this theory is right the answer to that question is basically the whole show. If they really explain the plane crash this season we may have a better idea of the direction we are heading. If the "explanation" for the crash is something like "the cockpit instruments went blank" then they will basically have told us nothing. I predict they will tell us something so close to nothing, it will pretty much seem like it is nothing:(

[manofadventure]

Sounds plausible. It'll probably be the biggest twist of the show if they end up showing that the flashbacks weren't indeed flashbacks at all.

[Devil's Espresso]

No, I think they'll tell us something, but I don't think it'll be that they were all gassed, cryogenically frozen, and planted on the island with fake memories.

Someone shoot me in the head if that happens, because that's cheap, pathetic, and will have me lose all hope in television. I still can't grasp how some people are even okay with the idea that they'd cheap out on us with fake memories. To me, the thought that they'd do that is just as bad as the thought that they wouldn't explain anything.

[Three2run]

I think that we see both. There was a Season 1 episode with Claire and the psychic, the fellow that kept telling Claire she had to raise the child herself. Anyway, on one one of her visits Claire gets upset and leaves in a hurry. She goes out the door of the house and it closes. The camera then moves in on the psychic's face. Now who is remembering that? Not Claire, since she doesn't have eyes in the back of her head which can see through walls and doors. The camera is just trying to show us how the psychic feels. This is backstory for us - clear and simple. But this backstory is motivated by Claire's memory of this time in her life.

Lost is not a computer game. There is way to much in the way of theory and speculation that is being built on unbelievably strict interpretation of events in the show.

I'll probably go with ileslie and Devil's Espresso. The show concerns a great deal about spirituality and destiny and religious stuff, that the Losties are literally "lost" before and after they are planted on the island. Backstories facilitate a great deal on the show humanity concerns and give the show a much wider dimension.

If "false memory implantation" is actually the case here, the show appears to me to be nothing more than a old time sci-fiction. All things is part of a big dream. There's hardly anything we can interpret or theorize coz they are not true.

[heatdamaged]

Here's something funky to throw in the pot:

Why is Jack the only one we've seen connected to the tail survivors? If the flashbacks are indeed fake, and the castaways are having delusions/hallucinations of life before the island, it makes sense that they wouldn't see any of the other survivors. It also lends some credence to another theory about Jack being a possible ringer.

Or it could just be a trick by the writers to not introduce us to the 'tailies' too soon.

[thefilmchick]

This is me, whistling innocently. And to tack on: He's also the only one with any connection to any of the others (small 'o') - he knows Desmond. He seems to be the guy with the m4d hookup skillz (so to speak), and I think that's pointedly so.

[shaunklink]

Hey all, just finished the first season DVD and I love this show as much as Twin Peaks.

Personally, as a fan of Twin Peaks, I would like a somewhat crazy twist as the theory that started out this thread. Come on folks, make a little leap here! :) the new 'in' thing to do in the last 5 years of tv and film is to screw with the audience. I would not put it past the writers to throw in some twist where the memories are possibly fake OR that the people on the island are part of an experiement. I really wish I didn't read the first post in this thread because I personally think it's a great theory. I just hope for 2 things. 1, that it goes BEYOND what is discussed here. 2, that the writers of the show know when to quit.

with my Twin Peaks analogy, for anyone who has seen it, remember the last episode.....

[thefilmchick]

Shaun, go view my 'Jack as villain?' thread in the Characters: Jack forum. That's what heatdamaged is referring to, and that's pretty out-there as well, so. :) You might like it (even if the diehard Jack fans didn't)!

[xhajkx]

Kristin Richardson was Sawyer's girl, not Brittany ;)

http://www.alanmercer.com/images/Kristin%20395%2018.jpg
She is the other girl of Sawyer the one that had a little boy.
The lotto-girl/Sawyer's-one-night-stand-girl was played by Brittany Perrineau. Harold Perrineau (Michael) told this when he was giving an interview

[pax]

an instance of a shared memory: the dog that Jin gave to Sun. we see, in Sun's flashback, Jin giving it to her, and in Jin's flashback, we see where he got it.

[benos]

The survivors were dead and created as clones after. And they have been implanted with fake memories. the real survivors were all Jack, Kate etc were no way important. So hanso and his goons decided to test thier fate. Locke knows something and must find out why ther on the island. But maybe Kate is the real Kate, and suddenly did'nt get implanted, and she is also maybe part of something big. but not a experiment and not the traitor.

[pax]

let's see: science is just able to create animal clones now, and they start as infants. So you're saying that fully formed, adult clones were created, complete with locke's kidney surgery scar, Charlie's heroin addiction, claire's pregnancy, etc?

[ctrlz]

So you're saying that fully formed, adult clones were created, complete with locke's kidney surgery scar, Charlie's heroin addiction, claire's pregnancy, etc?
Pax, be patient my friend. There's just no stopping these clone theories, despite there being no supportive evidence that specifically points to clones. And if you want to believe there are clones on the show there is really nothing to stop you. If we ever get to see the "clone Jack" standing next to the "real Jack" then we will know there really are clones. But there's just no way to prove anyone on the show is NOT a clone. Sure it's a ridiculous premise given current science, but lots of ridiculousness occurs on Lost.

[pax]

to quote a poster i saw once of two vultures watching a guy crawling through the desert: `patience, hell. i wanna kill something.'

[Meg Champagne]

The writers have said there is no grand scheme like this one going on. This is not all one big dream. Everything they show has really happened. They have said that multiple times.

[benos]

on oceanicflight185.com there was a script containing clones. but its not real. just something to keep us fans wanting to reveal some mysteries on upcoming episodes. Abandoned we know was a real episode name.

[swiffer]

i dont think they are implanted memories, but i do believe in the experiment theory. they people on the plane were chosen for a reason, and they are experimenting.

either they are experimenting with the tail-enders, and the fronties are left alone and htats why they survive alone, unhindered by whoever is experimenting.
or

the experiments were being made on the front end survivorsand the tailing are left to fend for themsleves, getting attacked by these others, leftovers of other experiments.

[pax]

Problems with the experiment theory: this would have to mean that the crash was caused by those behind the experiments, who also have some sort of pseudo-science to create a mid-air breakup and still have dozens of survivors. and you kill hundreds of other people just to do it. wouldn't it be easier -- and less risky -- to just abduct people on land and haul them there in a drugged state? also doesn't address the Black Rock, the numbers, etc.

[ctrlz]

Problems with the experiment theory: this would have to mean that the crash was caused by those behind the experiments,
Not necessarily.

The Others could be what's left of Dharma experiments gone wrong. The Lostaways could have been brought to the island for some unrevealed purpose. It just turns out this is a very busy place with a deep, tortured past.

There are lots of possibilities if you believe that most of what's happening on the island is unrelated, that there are several stories here, not one Master Plan.

[pax]

ctrlz -- i agree that the Others could be what's left of experiments gone wrong. i just don't see how the Losties could have been `brought' to the island in any kind of scientific way just for experiments. but i also agree that there are several major aspects to the story and that the scientific side is one of them. as some of you know, i lean toward the eventual good-vs.-evil battle looming and that the Losties were `brought' to the island to take part in that battle

[ctrlz]

i just don't see how the Losties could have been `brought' to the island in any kind of scientific way just for experiments.
If the losties have been brought to the island, or if anyone has been brought to the island for the purposes of a hoax or con, the mystery quickly becomes a problem of costs vs. benefits.

To me, the costs of staging anything so elaborate far outweigh any conceivable benefits. There was a theory here a few months back which suggested the purpose of all this was to convince the Lostaways of some Big Lie or Big Truth. They would meander about the island and struggle to survive. Ultimately they would come to discover the Big Truth, something along the lines of "the world will end soon." The island will serve to convince all these people from different cultures that this Big Truth is real. When they return to civilization, they are the messengers bringing the Big Truth to the rest of the world. This idea seemed possible, but nothing on the show so far supports that direction for the story.

All that being said, I still think it more likely that the crash was staged, mainly because what we've seen of the wreckage and falling tail suggests it was not a survivable incident.

[benos]

I believe the tailers were'nt meant to survive.

[St. Lo]

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I believe it goes to support my previously stated theory that the flashbacks of the characters are not accurate:

- When Jack's future wife and Shannon's dad (we assume) are brought into the ER, there are two obvious close-up's of Jack's wrist watch, showng the Time to be about 6:10. (sorry I'm not good at screen captures) (are doctors even suppose to have watches on while doing emergency surgery?)

- But, while Jack is working on Sarah, another medical tech calls the Time of Death on the man to be 8:15am

- Then, when Jack walks over to the dead man's table, a med. tech's wrist is purposely shown, with a digital watch showing the time to be 11:14

- Further, as I recall, when Shannon got word of her father's death, it was in the afternoon, was it not?

Now the time things could have been filming mistakes...but usually the LOST directers are very careful about their props/sets. I don't think they would have over looked prominent wrist watches.

The point is: The accuracy of the flashbacks should not be trusted, and is possibly full of symbolism, not reality.

[St. Lo]

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I believe it goes to support my previously stated theory that the flashbacks of the characters are not accurate:

- When Jack's future wife and Shannon's dad (we assume) are brought into the ER, there are two obvious close-up's of Jack's wrist watch, showng the Time to be about 6:10. (sorry I'm not good at screen captures) (are doctors even suppose to have watches on while doing emergency surgery?)

- But, while Jack is working on Sarah, another medical tech calls the Time of Death on the man to be 8:15am

- Then, when Jack walks over to the dead man's table, a med. tech's wrist is purposely shown, with a digital watch showing the time to be 11:14

- Further, as I recall, when Shannon got word of her father's death, it was in the afternoon, was it not?

Now the time things could have been filming mistakes...but usually the LOST directers are very careful about their props/sets. I don't think they would have over looked prominent wrist watches.

The point is: The accuracy of the flashbacks should not be trusted, and is possibly full of symbolism, not reality.

[OUradu]

I think it is just a mess up on their part. Why would they have us watch these flashbacks, then tick us all off when they reveal they weren't real. I think they are compelling character development that are what they appear to be on the surface.

[shred]

Although it looks like St. Lo double posted, he really didn't. I merged his threads for him because they are on the same topic.

[Amelia]

I think the backstories are for the benefit of the audience and nothing more. As someone else noted the characters don't suddenly stop while boar unting or doing the laundry to have a flashback. We are being allowed a glimpse at their past to give us insight into the characters.

I also take exception to the "Back-Story" explanation. Mostly because of Sawyer's past. The character Sawyer assumed the identity of the con-man that targeted his parents. Thus in his memories, he superimposes his face on the con-man's. An objective "Back-story" would have shown us the actual man.

Sawyer didn't superimpose his face on that of the real Sawyer. The events where he is running a con are events he participated in as an adult. We don't see the face of the original Sawyer because the events we are being shown aren't about him.

Also most of these people lived in LA and while it's a big place it isn't impossible that their lives intersected at various points unbeknownst to them. If we had the ability to look at a recording of our lives and look at all the people who may have passed by us in the airport or a hospital corridor or while we were running in the park we would probably see a couple people we knew but hadn't yet met at that time.

I think part of the reason for the intersecting lives is to show just how small a world we really live in.

[St. Lo]

Weird.... When I watched the episode with Saywer flashback....I had thought that the con we were seeing was what the con guy did to his parents, and he had superimposed himself as the real Sawyer. But...I guess it could have been Sawyer's own con, and when he saw the boy he cancelled it. Dang it.

Thank you for showing me the light, my child

[St. Lo]

I'll buy the coincidence bit as far as Shannon's Dad and Jack in the same hospital...but Sawyer sleeping with the Lottery girl...then meeting Jack's dad is just too much.

BUT!! C'mon..how about some credit for the whole time problem mention above?? Why would the director allow these prominant watches be on the actors..and have one actor call out the time of death in the same scene....

...if not to make a point that the flashbacks are not accurate?

[PopsKrock]

The thing that gives it away that Sawyer's flashback is not a replay of his own life is the finale of his con. Sawyer sees the little boy and remembers his own past he walks out of the house without completing the con. He even leaves his portion of the money behind. This is not what happened when the real Sawyer ran the con back in 1976.

Did I miss something about Sawyer sleeping with the Lotto girl? I thought the woman he slept with worked at a car dealership.

Sawyer meeting Jack's dad isn't that weird. When I was in Italy I randomly bumoed into an another American woman. It turned out she was a professor at the same college I was attending back in the states. Two Illinoisans meeting halfway around the world has to be just as a low a probabilty as the Sawyer Christian meeting.

[Ravenous]

Did I miss something about Sawyer sleeping with the Lotto girl? I thought the woman he slept with worked at a car dealership.

Not her, the other chick he was with, when Hibbs was in his hotel room.

[Ar-Pharazon]

Someone shoot me in the head if that happens, because that's cheap, pathetic, and will have me lose all hope in television. I still can't grasp how some people are even okay with the idea that they'd cheap out on us with fake memories. To me, the thought that they'd do that is just as bad as the thought that they wouldn't explain anything.
I really don't understand your attitude. It sounds like you are just heavily invested in wanting the back stories/flashbacks/memories to be 'real', and won't accept any other possibility. You don't give the writers enough credit . . . I'm confident they could have a framework in which the losties all have some type of 'mixed up' memories, but it's nothing lame like 'drug em, implant em, drop em on the island, and watch what happens.'

In reality, having them all turn out to be erroneous memories would be a GREAT plot twist. They are obviously all presented to the audience as being 'real' and accurate. I think 99% of the people watching just assume that they are just what they appear to be . . . flashbacks. And yet they are all filled with very subtle clues that something odd is afoot . . . all the unlikely connections that have been mentioned. If in fact they end up being 'false' in some way, then probably 90% of the audience will be totally blown away . . . 'whoa! didn't see THAT coming!'.

If I understand it, the writers said that the things happening to the characters were actually happening . . . the island was not a dream, and they were really there. This does not necessarily imply that their memories are all accurate.

Also, remember to use perspective in all of this. Probably 90+% of the MILLIONS of people who watch this show do NOT log onto internet message boards and obsess over every detail, or TIVO it and rewatch it frame-by-frame, either. They just watch it, and maybe talk a bit about it at 'the water cooler' the next day. This type of twist would be plenty satisfying for the 'average' viewer, I think. Still better than just about anything else that on TV anymore, at least.

I'm not at all totally convinced that this theory is correct, but it is certainly a very plausible part of a possible 'master' theory.

[St. Lo]

Excellent points made above by the guy with the mythical heathen aviatar.

Consider this possiblity of Jack's flashback to the day that his future wife, Sarah is brought into the ER...

The events that morning look like they happened quickly, but maybe Jack's flashback is inaccurate in this way. Maybe his watch shows the time to be 6:10, because that's when he was working on Sarah....but he worked on her a looooong time, ignoring Shannon's father until he died at 8:15am (the called time of death). Then he kept working on Sarah, and didn't even get over to the other bed until 11:15, the time on the Med. Tech's watch.

I'm thinking also perhaps that Sarah was Always his fiance; and when he sat down with the "fiance" int he episode it was just talking to himself...

[Worst Tiler]

I am all over the "fake memories" theory. I have thought for a long time there is something wrong with everyone's memory, for several reasons:

1. All the interconnections between the characters. I think it goes way beyond not "mistaking coincidence for fate" ala Mr. Eko. Jack and Shannon's father connection, Sawyer happening to be in the same small bar in the middle of the Australian outback with jack's father, and then Sawyer happens to be on the same plane as Jack, which of course crashes and they are marooned together....the list is endless.

2. The fact that many of them seem to be connected to the island WAY before the plane crash. Two cases in point: a) Hurley meeting the man that heard the original transmission of the numbers in a mental hospital, then Hurley using those numbers to win the lottery, then going to Australia to talk with Lenny's wife, and then he happens to crash land on the very island that started this whole chain of events?? The odds against that are mind-boggling...and b) Jack meets Desmond years before, and this guy happens to show up in a secret underground bunker on the same island that Jack crashes on?

It seems that (at least) Hurley and Jack were meant to be on this island, which then begs the question were they, and everyone else on board, maneuvered and manipulated into being on the plane, which someone knew ahead of time would crash on this particular island? I have to believe NOT...the logistics of such a plan are impossible to control! There is no way you could control every single aspect of someone's life for years in order to manipulate them to be on a specific flight - there is too much uncertainty with life and with human nature. In fact, Hurley almost DIDN'T make it on the flight!

Even if ONLY Jack and Hurley were meant to be on the island, that would mean that Hurley and Jack have been under "surveillance" for at least 3-4 years. And I'm sure as time goes on, we will see that even more of the survivors have connections to the island that will make it seem that they were meant to be on the plane and subsequently the island as well. In order to watch, manipulate, and maneuver this many people onto a specific island, you would have to have vast resources and manpower to do so, which implies a grand conspiracy that spans the globe. Any organization with that kind of power and manpower would not be using old computers, tugboats and the like.

The fake memories idea also explains Locke's "miraculous" healing. He was never paralyzed to begin with, only given the memories of a paralyzed man, so when he awoke from the crash and could walk, he thinks "it's a miracle! I can walk!", which then sets him up as the Man of Faith .

In order to run an experiment and get all of these particular personality types together in one place, which would be easier:

investigating, finding and then assembling all of these diverse people from all over the world onto one specific plane, that you know will crash, AND you have to make sure that they will indeed survive said crash and crash specifically on this island

OR

grabbing just any group of people, and implanting memories in them, thereby creating the very group of personality types you need for your experiment??

[St. Lo]

I've always though "implanted/manufactured" memories is a bit too far out even for Lost. I'm thinking they are inaccurate or partial memories, with little bits of the Island or their Island experience mixing in with them. Kate for example...she sees a horse on the island....hose shows up in flashback...Shazam!

But I do believe the inaccuracies or odd bits are symbols of something else.

[Worst Tiler]

St. Lo - the horse and Kate is another perfect example!

I'm not sure that every single memory is implanted and they are totally manufactured personalities - that IS a bit of a stretch, though still possible. I do, however, agree with you that all of the memories having to do with the Island and the connections to it are probably the implanted memory part.

[St. Lo]

One additional nugget to my Time Problem in Episode 2.01 note above.

When Jack is visiting Sarah after her recovery...the very obvious clock on the wall says 6:10.....the exact time that was on Jack's watch when she first came in the ER.

The very-careful set directors/writers of this show are telling us something. This is season #2, after all...they know we're watching closely...

[ctrlz]

In reality, having them all turn out to be erroneous memories would be a GREAT plot twist. They are obviously all presented to the audience as being 'real' and accurate. I think 99% of the people watching just assume that they are just what they appear to be . . . flashbacks. And yet they are all filled with very subtle clues that something odd is afoot . . . all the unlikely connections that have been mentioned. If in fact they end up being 'false' in some way, then probably 90% of the audience will be totally blown away . . . 'whoa! didn't see THAT coming!'.

I agree this would work well in the context of the show.

I have been harping on theories of unreliable memory, drugs, and hallucinations for many months. We don't really have good evidence of any of this yet.

I've always thought there were two big in-your-face clues which go back to the first episode of Lost. First I think the fact that they discussed how they should not have survived the plane crash casts doubt onto whether the crash happened the way they (and we) think it happened. Second, and more germaine to this thread, I think the flashbacks are really daydreams. They are what the character remembers in a "waking vision." They are not by any means an historic document of events. We like to think they tell the story of what happened, but they really only show what the characters THINK happened.

This idea of altered memories is not far-fetched. We all recall past events with varying degrees of accuracy. And we change uncomfortable memories to make them conform to our own biased viewpoints. This is human nature. There are also many commonly available drugs which induce different forms of amnesia. Anesthetics are probably the most familiar class of pharmaceuticals which are associated with these phenomena. It is not a far stretch to presume there is a chemical agent on the island which has these effects. Drugs which cause these problems don't ever get past the early development stage, because anything beyond mild retrograde amnesia would not be considered acceptable.

[St. Lo]

Let's not forget our very-close-to-actual evidence of "mind-messing" in the real-time on the island....

Claire was kidnapped, and still cannot recall what happened to her.

Somebody out there knows how to tink with their thinkers...

[ctrlz]

Let's not forget our very-close-to-actual evidence of "mind-messing" in the real-time on the island....

Claire was kidnapped, and still cannot recall what happened to her.

And Locke's special wacky head paste treatment for Boone's injury.

That is 100% confirmatory evidence that there is a mind-altering substance already on the island, and that at least Locke knows where to find it and how to prepare it.

[Worst Tiler]

And Locke's special wacky head paste treatment for Boone's injury.

That is 100% confirmatory evidence that there is a mind-altering substance already on the island, and that at least Locke knows where to find it and how to prepare it.

And let's not forget everyone seeing things that shouldn't be there...

Jack and his dad

Shannon/Sayid and Walt

AND Locke's "vision" of the Beechcraft going down, which leads him to the wreckage....

I think they aren't hallucinating, but rather having these "visions" sent to them somehow...probably the same way they gave them the fake memories

[Ar-Pharazon]

OK, it's time to revitalize this thread/theory based on events seen in the "Maternity Leave" episode . . .

I feel this epi gives some pretty tangible 'meta-clues' that this may be the case. In fact, you could conjecture that the writers are 'spoon-feeding' the idea to us. This whole episode is about a Lostie being drugged and forgetting a portion of her past, then slowly recovering the memory of what happened. In the course of this, she 'remembers' some odd things that should not be, such as Oceanic planes on the crib mobile.

Could this be a clue that in the series as a whole, this same thing is happening? Each of the Losties is remembering his/her past, and inserting 'odd' things into the memories that really don't belong there . . .

There is the old saw about Occam's Razor . . . continue to eliminate the least plausible, most complicated explanation and eventually you'll be left with the truth. Maybe it's time to apply that here . . .

Jack chose to not save Shannon's father in a random car accident. Sawyer ran into Kate's mother in a diner, and also Jack's father in a bar. Hurley heard some crazy guy repeating some numbers, played them in the Lottery, won . . . then crashed on the exact island where the numbers originated (with no apparent explanation for their 'magic'). Sayid meets Kate's father half a world away from her home. Locke and Hurley have the same jerk of a boss. Jack meets a random dude while jogging, who shows up on the same island where the plane crashes some years later. All this stuff just coincidentally happens . . .

Cut. Too unlikely an explanation.

Dharma somehow manipulates everyone's life and MAKES all of the above 'coincidences' happen. They're not coincidental, but carefully 'set up'.

Cut. Too unlikely an explanation.

A bunch of as-yet-unexplained people have some type of history together . . . an event or series of events or entire life behind them, but they don't remember them. Now the memories are starting to come back, and they each weave their own 'personal story' together, intermixing this mysterious past with events from their own life.

Much simpler. Stays for now.

I will throw back the argument that seems to come up in this thread, right back at those who make it . . . if the writers are actually weaving a story based on a series of multiple, huge, improbable coincidences, then I'm TOTALLY disappointed. Or, if they're making a story where all of those coincidences have been manipulated by some super-powerful entity/organization . . . again, I'm totally disappointed. That, my friends, is a cop out.

Instead, imagine . . .

There is still some large, unknown plot that underlies the whole series. We really have no idea what it is, yet. But we're seeing glimpses of it . . . we're introduced to the main characters and artifacts and events slowly and indirectly, through the remembered 'flashbacks' of the Losties. Eventually, we'll learn more and more . . . and at some point the 'a-ha' moment will come when we're magically transported from the current story of a few dozen survivors of a plane crash to whatever the mysterious 'backstory' really is. What a deal . . . two stories in one!

I can't see how anyone could be disappointed with that . . .

[ryanv1978]

Ther serious would be a tremendous disapoitment if all of this came true.

I think from the interviews i had read and the pod casts i have listened to, that this theory if very far off.

[ctrlz]

OK, it's time to revitalize this thread/theory based on events seen in the "Maternity Leave" episode . . .

This whole episode is about a Lostie being drugged and forgetting a portion of her past, then slowly recovering the memory of what happened. In the course of this, she 'remembers' some odd things that should not be, such as Oceanic planes on the crib mobile.

You are right I think.

I wonder what they used to intoxicate Claire, and if it was the same substance locally available as mixed by Locke and administered to Boone. The idea that someone like Claire can be made pliable for weeks and have no recollection could have major ramifications for the whole story.

And you are right about the little details in Claire's memory like the mobile of Oceanic jets. She may be bringing that in from other memories.

This line of thinking not only explains the supposed connections between the characters, but also oddities like Locke knowing about "Theresa falls up the stairs" even though Boone didn't recall telling him. The answer is either Boone did tell him (but doesn't remember) or someone else told Locke about Boone's past (and Locke doesn't remember).

Could this also mean that important memories could be reconfigured? Kate, for example, remembers robbing the bank for a toy plane, which makes no sense to any of us. But maybe the memory of the plane was substituted to obscure the true nature of her plunder.

[IsThisOurDestiny]

I don't agree with this theory. It is too easy to sit back and say it is all fabricated. It doesn't support anything with real evidence from the show. It is a bit hard to prove your theory wrong however because the basis of it suggests that it is all made up and thus can answer any criticism thrown at it LoL.

[Worst Tiler]

I am one of the folks who DO believe this theory. I'm not sure we are saying their entire LIVES are fabricated, but there is definitely something fishy going on with their memories. How can all of these people be so interconnected to each other and the island before the crash, and then all happen to wind up on the same plane and then the island together??

There is two possibilities. Either A) there is some far-reaching international conspiracy/organization that is tracking these people, manipulating them, and arranging for them all to be on the same plane...OR

B) Their memories that show the interconnectiveness with each other and the island were implanted in order to create the appearance that they are all connected.

Also - I personally believe that there are two factions implanting memories into the survivors. One is doing so in order to create these interconnections as described above, for whatever purpose they have for having all of these folks on the island, experiments, messing with them...whatever is really going on. For example, the vision John had of the plane that led him and Boone to it in the jungle was sent by Dharma/Others in order to get them to that plane in order to further along the experiment.

BUT, I believe there is another group that is sending them memories/visions that are trying to help our losties in stopping Dharma and the Others from what they are doing. For example, I believe the dream Charlie had that Aaron had to be baptised was sent from someone trying to protect Aaron from the Others/Dharma.

But..who is who?

[IsThisOurDestiny]

Maybe it is their destiny that they are all on this island...:rolleyes:

[Worst Tiler]

Maybe it is their destiny that they are all on this island...:rolleyes:

Don't confuse concidence with fate. :)

[IsThisOurDestiny]

But surely it isn't coincidence that they are ALL on this island together.

It is their destiny that they are on the island, but the "power" which controls that destiny is another matter...

[flipperkun]

I admit it would be more logical for them to have false memories if you take the Vulcan approach :) Still I would feel a little cheated if this turned out to be the case.

indeed i would feel cheated too, plus it would be stupid too. But i can assure you they're real. That's the whole aspect of lost, that connected stuff. They all have something to do with eachother, it starts to look (for themselves in the serie) as if it was mented to be that way, that they were gathered in that plain and crashed for a purpose (not scientific tests but maybe discovering that once there was a lab there with maybe lots of left behind stuff and some survivors,.....)

This serie is build on the Sublime aspect(s) we all love, i can't repeat this enough it seems cause lots of you people get carried away easily, it seems.

i totally agree with ISTHISOURDESTINY in this one, it seems :p

[IsThisOurDestiny]

Thank you :)

When people hear the words destiny they automatically think supernatural, when in reality anybody that has the ability to affect your path in life is controlling your destiny...

[flipperkun]

indeed , that's what i refer too when i talk about faith and destiny. Other people you meet in strange ways but are vital in yr life later on, or because of them you changed yr way of living,... We don't control our destiny, we like to think that but it's only half true in my opinion. We all had those moments in our life and we all will have them again, and if you think no not with me, then think again, really...

That is wy Lost is so easy to understand and wy we all seem to like it so much, well not only that but i'm sure it has something to do with it.

[Meg Champagne]

I thought I read somewhere that the writers/producers have debunked this theory...

[Speedie]

The argument seems to be that it is too far fetched for there to be all those connections between the survivors and so the flashbacks must be false.

I can't believe that anyone can think that it is more realistic that -


These people should be taking it in turns to remember things from their pasts

One character recalls three or four memories from their past, without anybody else having memories in between time.

These people can remember things they could not possibly have seen, ie the expressions on peoples faces after the person remembering had left the room

Not only do these people apparently stop in the middle of dangerous situations to take time out to remember the past, but they remember 10 or so minutes of DETAILED memory in just a second!


In other words, it seems to me that the episodic nature of the flashbacks, with each episode we see being dedicated to the flashbacks of one particular character, is far too inconsistent with the idea of the flashbacks being memories. They are too ordered, too sequencial. If they really where memories, surely rather than having an episode devoted to say Locke, followed by one devoted to kate and then one devoted to Charlie, each episode would show the memories of several different survivors.

I would be very disappointed if the flashbacks turned out to be false memories, but not because I don't think it would make a good twist (I guess it would). I wouldn't like it because for the reasons I have give, I truely believe that if the flashbacks turned out to be memories (false or not) it would be the only really unrealistic part of a quality show.

That's my £1.50's worth anyway!!!!!!!!

[Tarasind]

Regarding the flashbacks and the interconnectedness I would think that the info is provided mostly for the benefit of the viewer. In most cases the characters will never be able to piece together that they are connected by these fairly superficial connections.

Shannon is dead, so the fact that Jack was in the room when her father died will most likely never be revealed to the Losties. And even if she weren't dead she never looked at Jack nor she her so they had no idea of their "connection".

Ditto for Sawyer and Kate's mom. There is no way he is going to remember or ever bring up to his fellow castaways the name of some waitress that served him once. Even if Kate tells him her Mom's name and that she was a waitress in Iowa? I cannot see Sawyer remembering.

The same can be said for Kate's stepfather and Sayid, its simply not going to come up.

That being said it would seem that the "flashbacks" or whatever they are, are their for the benefit of the viewer. That is not to say that they are 100% true and accurate.

Earlier in the thread it was stated that the characters are not actually taking time out to remember these events but I think a case can be made that Sun was doing just that in her conversation with Kate in The Whole Truth.

If in fact these memories are false and the reason that several characters are remembering people from other characters lives it would seem that they should a. play larger more memorable roles (ala Kate's mom, Jack and Shannon) and b. they shouldn't actually be connected to other Losties (Sayid and Kate's father). Of course it the writers had Kate's father showing up as a con man in Sawyers memories I guess that would be a little bit too obvious that something was up.

Overall I would say that the memories should be taken with a grain of salt but we have no real reason to doubt that they are real. Most of the connections are ones that only the viewers are or probably ever will be privy too.

[Speedie]

One major reason why I don't think the flashbacks are the characters memories -

Think about Kate's flashback with Sayid on the screen in the office, Jin's flashback of being in Sun's dad's office where there was a picture of the Island on the TV screen and Boone's flashback (?) where we see Sawyer being led past him in the police station and many others. If the characters had remembered these things, wouldn't kate have said to Sayid "Hey I saw you on TV man!"? Wouldn't Jin have told Sun he had seen the very Island they where on, on a TV screen in her Dad's office? Wouldn't Boone(?) have mentioned seeing Sawyer in the Police station?

Okay so I know our Losties lack a bit in the curiosity stakes, but surely even they would have mentioned it each other if they remembered seeing someone on the island before.

[Shotapolarbear]

yea but we've already established that this show is supernatural...

[Worst Tiler]

Here is a link I think anyone should check out concerning NASA/government testing about mind reading/thought control/fake thought and memory insertion in test subjects:

http://www.raven1.net/uncom.htm

A lot of it is really scientific, but if you go through it all, it is creepy about how much it fits with what is going on on Lost.

- pay special attention to the part about "phantom voices" (the whispers):

Audible Voice to Skull (V2S)
i. Delivered remotely, at a distance
ii. Made to appear as emanating from thin air
iii.Voices or sound effects only the victim can hear
c. Inaudible Voice to Skull (Silent Sound)
i. Delivered by apparent at a distance radio signal;
manifested by sudden urges to do something/go somewhere
you would not otherwise want to; silent (ultrasonic)
hypnosis is possible ii. Programming hypnotic "triggers" - i.e. specific phrases
or other cues which cause specific involuntary actions

The first un-classified successful transmission of the human voice directly into the skull of a living person was first performed by Dr. Joseph C. Sharp of the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research in 1974

- see the part about an "introductory event" (plane crash):

In every series of stress event type, ONE introductory event of
very high energy/effect is staged. The obvious purpose is to be
certain the victim KNOWS this is external harassment, and not just
"bad luck". From that time forward, the perpetrators appear to
apply "Pavlovian training" so that they can get the victim to "jump"
(or react in some way) to the same effect at a tiny fraction of the
initial "introductory" event.

There is so much more - but I saw this and thought WOW.

Before you make a judgment, read the whole paper. There are also parts about using this technique to affect the body parts of subjects, including preventing them from using their arms and/or legs (Locke?)I'm curious to see what others think about it...

[Visible man]

This theory sounds very Vanilla Sky (Tom Cruise Film) -ish.

[Pubic Hair Ball]

The Flashbacks of the "survivors" are not real. They are put together by the characters or induced in some manner as the days go along. Events, bits of luggage, and other characters trigger them to create memories. Even the survivors' being on the Oceanic Flight is a false memory. (c'mon...a plane splits in half...and people survive...but no one has a cell phone?)

If you rewatch the Pilot episode from season 1, Boone clearly had a cell phone.

[St. Lo]

Yeah, Yeah....I admitted to that mistake a long time ago

[ctrlz]

If you rewatch the Pilot episode from season 1, Boone clearly had a cell phone.
They even mentioned laptops in the pilot episodes. Hurley's CD player petered out a few episodes later.

After that, they all seemed pretty content to leave the trappings of the civilized world behind, with two notable exceptions:
1) Modern phamaceuticals. They seem to have an endless supply of some of the more unlikely drugs.
2) Sexy resort wear in all the right sizes.

[Godofredo]

Sorry, but that is a pretty bad theory(refering to thread starter). I do think it all could be some kind of psychological experiment though.
They aren't flashbacks really, they are just explaining back story of the charectors, or we would have no idea what these people are about.

[Paul K Flameboy]

Exactally. I don't even think every flashback is being remembered by the character when it is shown. I still think most of it is true. The fact that the characters were connected before the island isn't likely just a coinencidence. Not that someone else planned it all. But maybe. Has anyone else noticed this?: The same gold car hit both Michael and Locke and was in one of Kate's flashbacks. Either the backstories are mixed up, or someone was spying on them, planning this crash. Of course that is at least ten years of trying to get these people on the island. (Which it would probally take) I think the characters pasts are getting really mixed up because of the island, or it was planned. Libby and Hurley, and Locke and Nadia are just two recent examples. As posted earlier, the flashbacks are mostly for the viewers, but one day I think the Losties will begin to learn just how connected they really are. (I just wish we'll see an Other's flashback, or Desmond or Daneille's)

Oh and someone wrote this:

Here's something funky to throw in the pot:

Why is Jack the only one we've seen connected to the tail survivors? If the flashbacks are indeed fake, and the castaways are having delusions/hallucinations of life before the island, it makes sense that they wouldn't see any of the other survivors. It also lends some credence to another theory about Jack being a possible ringer.

Or it could just be a trick by the writers to not introduce us to the 'tailies' too soon.
__________________
This isn't true. If you look in deleated scenes from Seson 1 DVD, Claire and Bernard might be connected. Just wanted to point that out.

[reQ]

They have all been under the serum of the experiment for 16 years, they have never been off the island, and all the inter-twining flashbacks have been memories of meeting each other in some sort of drug-induced state.

When Claire gets kidnapped, the reason is so the child can be filled with the serum that the rest of them were on. A serum that blanks out reality matrix style and adopts a heroic version of you in another place. If Russo's daughter has been there for 16 years why hasn't she tried to escape the place? I think the clues I need to be looking for lie in the storyline flashbacks. Jack had an a big problem with his dad who "died" but he went on to be better than him in a way that no-one could have imagined by doing the miracle op. Same with Walt who only met his dad.. was this a mistake by the others? Is Michael really the father of a kid he was transporting back home! Or was that his illusion.. to be a better father.

The plane crash is the awakening of the guys on the island, and they are made to believe that they have all come from around the world and randomly came together through the crash. Jack wakes up with a minituare bottle of vodka in his pocket, and instantly remembers where it came from - the plane! It seems a little odd to put that in there. Misleading the audience, misleading the staff, misleading everyone into thinking that they are Lost, when they are far from it.

It's a far fetched idea to think that so many survived the crash and were able to have so many cooincidental (not fate eko) things happen.

I bet JJ and Damon read these theories and go entirely in the opposite direction of the logical ones.. Well..maybe not.. but if you are.. stop it..lol.

[JaseyBoi]

They have all been under the serum of the experiment for 16 years, they have never been off the island, and all the inter-twining flashbacks have been memories of meeting each other in some sort of drug-induced state.

When Claire gets kidnapped, the reason is so the child can be filled with the serum that the rest of them were on. A serum that blanks out reality matrix style and adopts a heroic version of you in another place. If Russo's daughter has been there for 16 years why hasn't she tried to escape the place? I think the clues I need to be looking for lie in the storyline flashbacks. Jack had an a big problem with his dad who "died" but he went on to be better than him in a way that no-one could have imagined by doing the miracle op. Same with Walt who only met his dad.. was this a mistake by the others? Is Michael really the father of a kid he was transporting back home! Or was that his illusion.. to be a better father.

The plane crash is the awakening of the guys on the island, and they are made to believe that they have all come from around the world and randomly came together through the crash. Jack wakes up with a minituare bottle of vodka in his pocket, and instantly remembers where it came from - the plane! It seems a little odd to put that in there. Misleading the audience, misleading the staff, misleading everyone into thinking that they are Lost, when they are far from it.

It's a far fetched idea to think that so many survived the crash and were able to have so many cooincidental (not fate eko) things happen.

I bet JJ and Damon read these theories and go entirely in the opposite direction of the logical ones.. Well..maybe not.. but if you are.. stop it..lol.

In theory thats an awsome theory but alas i dont reckon its true..

True i did indeed think that thet were NOT survivors of an aeroplane but indeed drugged to think that.(the dharma signs on the plane in the pilot episode made me think that plus the toy thing on clairs babys cot ON THE ISLAND had wee aeroplanes the same as the crash)

Where jack wakes up on the island IS NOT possible from where he was sitting on the -plane as i have proven on other boards he would have been ripped in 5 bits if he was sucked out the plane over the heads of people he was sitting infront of (and fully strapped in) remeber he was sitting oposite rose yet he awakes in the jungle she wakes up in the water......

Lets remeber the pilots body we see in ep2 s1 i think it is that gets sucked out the plane and is found dead ontop of tress was actually JACKS body but the writers were FORCED to keep jack not kill him (watch lost data it will explain the pilots body better)

Again if EVERYONE is there for a reason because the island is so powerful why kidnap 1 lostie and kill 3 survivirs then Others who have been on this experiment for 16+ years..........

If the Others are a good bunch, and a good "family" why are they not extremely pissed off that 2 of there long term staff are now dead??????? (ethan and the guy ana killed)

Plus the fact if we all stop for 1 second and actually realise what lost means
Sayid in an early episode calculates exactly how far they were off course and determined where they were.....sorry but that isnt lost

The fact hardly any of them actually want to leave the island again tells me they aint lost..

Lost i believe is more a mental state than actual happenings...

anywho

[Maelkan]

I disbelieve this explanation because such an explanation is infuriating.

Honestly, how many TV's would survive us finding out that they've been asleep in some lab for X seasons. My boots would fly across the room obliterating my 27 inch TV.

Can you hear it? TV's shattering all over the country.

[DHARMAN]

what if the flashbacks are all implanted memories, and the "survivors" are not who they think they are, this is why locke can walk and rose isn't dying.

and makes you wonder if the crash had ever happend at all, this could be a real doozey if the Dharma Scientist turned out to be the survivors on the island and the Others are their to make sure they don't find out the truth, are like the referee's

all their relationships, are not real, also makes me wonder if Ethan fathered claire's baby, they way he was talking it seemed that way
Walt is not really michael son, jin and sun aren't married nor are bernard and rose

before you go saying hey what about the raft being blown up and people getting shot, (some egg's need be broken to make an omlette) and that the incident could have been some unforsee-able event or maybe earlier test subjects gone wrong

what may have happened is the "Survivors" willingly implanted new memories (or un-willingly) to test the or force "tabula rasa" theory on themselves, and the whole scenario is a science experiment (read more on Tabula Rasa to find out where i'm going with this) also Tabula Rasa has been mentioned briefly in lost as well. (ironically invisaged by someone called John locke)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa

Note*i copied this from my other thread sorry mods i dunno how i missed this :rolleyes: *

[tyla]

this show was created by some of the biggest self confessed tv/film geeks of the last decade right? doesn't it then make more sense that all these little coincidences were thrown in just to get like minded geeks, i.e. us, talkin about it all?!

[Phlebas]

what if the flashbacks are all implanted memories, and the "survivors" are not who they think they are

This idea has been done so many times already in film and television that I highly doubt Damon et al would consider using it for their format.

[Dhooood!!!!!]

Good Theory Jeseyboi.. However, It Has been done before to better effect.

The Tabula Rase / Mentally-plugged-in Grand THeory has been done to big acclaim (The Matrix). Back then (1999/2000), it was a fairly novel idea. Now, we've been there done that.

No this story has to have a ground pushing grand theory in order to get the show commisioned in the first place.

[Phlebas]

I agree with Dhood.

The only problem now is discovering what this original idea consists of... :confused:

[Mr.Guybrush]

this show was created by some of the biggest self confessed tv/film geeks of the last decade right? doesn't it then make more sense that all these little coincidences were thrown in just to get like minded geeks, i.e. us, talkin about it all?!

Agree with you there. What we all must realise is that they may already be laughing at us because the whole show could be a fabrication. Ever since Claires episode with the medical hatch i have made it my goal not to believe what happens in the 'flashbacks'. To me it's an obvious way to confuse us, how different would the show be, and how different would our perceptions of characters be, if the flashbacks weren't included?

[Berzerk]

I finally found a thread that is discussing my point of view! Here is my two cents worth... Some of these ideas have been around, but here they are wrapped in the same context.

* As you've been discussing, there was no plane crash, they have been on the "island" for a while already;

* The flashbacks are inducted memories, somehow created by Dharma as part of their behavioral experiment;

* That would explain the past connections among the survivors, and also the reason why those damn numbers are always present on the flashbacks;

* There are cycles for this experiment, and after each cycle their memories are wiped and new memories are inducted with the purpose of testing new situations;

* This also explain the miracle cures - the diseases are either treated by Dharma between cycles, or they are just part of the inducted memories;

* Goal of the experiment: genetic improvement of human race, that is being tested illegaly on humans in order to find out if there are significant behavioral changes or side effects;

* The map on the blast door and all the comments (s02e17) were left there by the survivors themselves, cycle after cycle. At some point of the cycle, they start to figure out what is happening and/or the fake memories start to fade away. This is when the write the messages until Dharma resets the experiment.


Here are some comments about the map:

* "Accelerated de-territorialization [...] through gene therapy" : They are all going through a scientific experiment. If so, the de-territorialization is working already as we see on s02e19...

* "Estimated travel time incompatible with 108 - do not attempt to journey" : A warning to them that possibly there are consequences for not pressing the buttons. It also shows that someone already tried and failed to do so.

* Latin phrases : Some of the phrases are of religious nature. The best profile for someone that is religious and knows Latin is a catholic priest - Mr. Eko?

* "P.RD every 6-8 months" : Would that be the experiment cycle duration before the memory wipe-out?

* "Don't consider that anything has been done if anything is left to be done" : Incentive for the next cycle to continue mapping out the island.

* "A mouse does not rely on just one hole" : Maybe the Swan is unstable or unreliable, so they are warning themselves to find another shelter.


As Phlebas pointed out, some of these ideas are not new and can be seen on movies such as Man in Black and Matrix. But in my point of view, the originality of LOST is in the way it is built episode after episode, and on the overall theory that will be tying all of those successful ideas together.

[Dhooood!!!!!]

The big problem is... If you write a story based upon based on a reality where there are scientific lab rats in an experiment and have had their brains mysteriously implanted, You get a creative anomaly known as 'Deus Ex Machina' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deux_ex_machina)... which basically means, You could import a storyline God comes down from the sky riding a bicycle surrounded by Pink and blue stripey elephants! ...meanwhile, all the flashbacks are fakes, and nothing is real because It's all implanted in their brains right? When in reality they are lying in some scientific couch unconscious, while in their mind they are lost on an island with black smoke and polar bears...

That's why most writers won't touch this idea of 'Memory-Implants' - it suspends reality and provides an easy but unsatisfying end to a complex plot....

[Selfie]

this show was created by some of the biggest self confessed tv/film geeks of the last decade right? doesn't it then make more sense that all these little coincidences were thrown in just to get like minded geeks, i.e. us, talkin about it all?!

Agreed. Those are my thoughts when it comes to the numbers as well. I'm sure that many of the discoveries Lost fans have made about the numbers are correct, but I'm sure many are coincidence. I mean you get people watching movies or reading books that are referred to in the show, and playing the eighth minute or reading the 42nd page, etc. Lost is a dream come true for people who love to analyze (sometimes over-analyze) TV series and movies.

But back to the original theory. I like it. However I have to admit that I wouldn't like it if this theory were true. It would work well in a movie, but when you're watching a series over, at least, a couple of years you tend to start caring for the characters. I mean the writers are obviously making an effort to establish backstories and context for the characters in Lost and they've definitely taken their time doing it (so many characters = a lot of backstory material). And where it might have been a huge shocker in a movie, I think it would backfire on them in a TV series such as this. People invest too much time watching it to be satisfied with the fact that at least half of what they saw was untrue, purely for the sake of a big twist.

[safe from harm]

a dull theory.

[DamRho]

I'm not sure how discussed this image was, but it's a screencap from one of the Season 1 episodes (Born To Run). I haven't read this thread in its whole so it's possible someone may have posted it here and this is a useless repeat of info but...

I find it interesting and I think people that defend this theory will also find it interesting. Notice what's written in the door behind Kate. Is this an undeliberate typo for "Imaging" or a deliberate clue that maybe hints at the nature of the flashback sequences as being fake/induced?

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=450&pos=645

[Phlebas]

That is a very nice find DamRho. It undoubtedly says "Imagining" rather than "Imaging". Despite my non agreeance with this theory it has to have been done purposefully.

[Seany]

I find the similarities between Lost and the movie Blade Runner quite interesting. The symbolism of the eye. Tyrell and Hanso parralel of "playing god". And even possibly the idea of memories being "implanted". This theory is definately not a long shot.

[Exie]

That is a very nice find DamRho. It undoubtedly says "Imagining" rather than "Imaging". Despite my non agreeance with this theory it has to have been done purposefully.
We discussed this when that episode came out and after a google search it looks like the I in MRI can be either....and evidently they mean the same thing. I had never heard of the I meaning Imagining before that. :eh:

[JIMNASTIC]

I love this idea. I'm sure most of us saw THE TRUMAN SHOW. I think the flashbacks are the 'background stories' on the contestants/characters...you know, "Here's Jack from Los Angeles. He's a big city surgeon with a struggling marriage, etc. etc." We've got two teams (at least) with an unending series of tasks to perform. We've got cameras monitoring the action. We've got SURVIVOR, BIG BROTHER, THE AMAZING RACE (Desmond said he was training for a race across the planet, and THE OTHERS love to "Light 'em up!" with those torches).

How can they be contestants and not know what's going on at the same time? I think it's also a type of incarceration. All of these characters appear to have killed someone, or been/felt responsible for killing someone in the previous life. What if they were given a choice (in whatever the society it is they actually come from) to serve time in prison, or be a participant in this REALITY Show of the future? They have their memories wiped (for a time, at least) and start anew. I think I read that the philospher John Locke believed in the 'clean slate' idea. I think the 'experiment' thing is just one of several components to the story.

My main theory buster on this one is the 'metaphysical' nature of the island. I.E. Locke's healed legs, Rose's cancer irradication, etc. etc. But, if the 'flashbacks/background pieces' are manufactured, then anything goes.

I also love the idea that, in an era of television when 'unscripted dramas' are all the rage, that a scripted drama ABOUT an unscripted drama could kick so hard in the ratings. It's also interesting that many of the characters' names are either characters or authors of or IN famous works. Jack Shepherd, John Locke, Kate Austin, even Hugh Reyes...check 'em out and see what you find.

[jimenez]

That sounds like Rat Race.

[AliCat]

I love this idea. I'm sure most of us saw THE TRUMAN SHOW. I think the flashbacks are the 'background stories' on the contestants/characters...you know, "Here's Jack from Los Angeles. He's a big city surgeon with a struggling marriage, etc. etc." We've got two teams (at least) with an unending series of tasks to perform. We've got cameras monitoring the action. We've got SURVIVOR, BIG BROTHER, THE AMAZING RACE (Desmond said he was training for a race across the planet, and THE OTHERS love to "Light 'em up!" with those torches).

How can they be contestants and not know what's going on at the same time? I think it's also a type of incarceration. All of these characters appear to have killed someone, or been/felt responsible for killing someone in the previous life. What if they were given a choice (in whatever the society it is they actually come from) to serve time in prison, or be a participant in this REALITY Show of the future? They have their memories wiped (for a time, at least) and start anew. I think I read that the philospher John Locke believed in the 'clean slate' idea. I think the 'experiment' thing is just one of several components to the story.

My main theory buster on this one is the 'metaphysical' nature of the island. I.E. Locke's healed legs, Rose's cancer irradication, etc. etc. But, if the 'flashbacks/background pieces' are manufactured, then anything goes.

I also love the idea that, in an era of television when 'unscripted dramas' are all the rage, that a scripted drama ABOUT an unscripted drama could kick so hard in the ratings. It's also interesting that many of the characters' names are either characters or authors of or IN famous works. Jack Shepherd, John Locke, Kate Austin, even Hugh Reyes...check 'em out and see what you find.
"The Truman Show" theory has it's own thread down in "Dead Horse Theories" -- it's been debunked before, so we discuss it there.

[luckninja]

I also think that the idea of the Losties being on a Game show or TV show, that is not Truman show has been discussed too. Game show/ TV is in these forums somewhere I think it was called Game show or survivor or sumthin' like that. Anyone else know?

[ctrlz]

I love this idea.
As did I.

Following Season 2, I must say I now think the plot of this show is a lot simpler than I had envisioned.

So I now think the flashbacks are real, and all the character "crosses" are just unlikely, "fate-driven" coincidences. Silly, but simple.

[svrwxfreak25]

Posted over from the "Island History: The Water" thread.

I do not think these flashbacks are real, because there are way too many random connections between characters for them to be real, so I believe that something in the water is causing them to believe their flashbacks are real. I mean, think about it, there weren't any connections in their flashbacks until they started to get to know each other, and now, the connections in their flashbacks are becoming more and more evident. My final theory about the flashbacks is that they will eventually become totally like life on the island, so the characters will finally realize they are fake, and will realize they are all part of a big expiriment.

[drifter]

Ambrose Bierce, the author of An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge was a realist (as opposed to his other contemporaries the romantics). His cynical writing style earned him the nickname "Bitter Bierce."

In the story readers are lead to believe Farquar has reunited with his wife. Despite clues like "As Peyton Fahrquhar fell straight downward through the bridge he lost consciousness and was as one already dead"and significant deterents like 1. his head in a noose 2. his hands tied behind his back 3. his feet on loose boards 4. being shot at while he was in the water, the reader still believes Peyton reaches his home and is surprised by the twist ending "As Peyton Fahrquhar fell straight downward through the bridge he lost consciousness and was as one already dead."

In other words, of course Peyton is dead! All stuff about his amazing escape and reuniting with his wife was baloney. If Peyton's hallucination is baloney, maybe some of the losties flashbacks are unreliable too.

[Speedie]

There are three different types of flashbacks happening in the show.


Distorted incomplete memories - EG Clare´s memories of the medical hatch.
Illustration of a story one character is relaying to another - EG Sun telling Jin what the Doctor said to her, about it being Jin that couldn´t have children.
Character back stories for the viewers benifit - Which is most of the flashbacks.


The main stumbling block to the theory that the back story flashbacks are fake, is basically logistics. If you look at how long it would take someone to remember the average flashback, surely that time span is incompatible with the length of time that has passed on the island between the start and finish of the flashback?

I could be wrong but I don´t believe that someone could remember events as clearly as some people are suggesting our Losties do, in what is effectively a split second between events.

I for one would be highly disappointed if it turned out that these where anything other than character back stories for the veiwers benifit. As of now it is one of the only things that would disappoint me.

[ctrlz]

The main stumbling block to the theory that the back story flashbacks are fake, is basically logistics. If you look at how long it would take someone to remember the average flashback, surely that time span is incompatible with the length of time that has passed on the island between the start and finish of the flashback.

I think drifter offered a terrific analogy to a classic work of fiction. Dramatic license allows one to expand or contract time for the purposes of the story.

[johnny_sack]

Posted over from the "Island History: The Water" thread.

I do not think these flashbacks are real, because there are way too many random connections between characters for them to be real, so I believe that something in the water is causing them to believe their flashbacks are real. I mean, think about it, there weren't any connections in their flashbacks until they started to get to know each other, and now, the connections in their flashbacks are becoming more and more evident. My final theory about the flashbacks is that they will eventually become totally like life on the island, so the characters will finally realize they are fake, and will realize they are all part of a big expiriment.

Yeah but that doesn't make sense since MOST of the connections between them ARE NOT KNOWN TO THE LOSTIES. They don't even know about or realize half of the connections that we realize and know.

For example, it may be that Locke's Dad is the real Sawyer. But neither Locke nor Sawyer know this, so if they do have this connection it couldn't have been brought on by something like the water.

[Nice n Nasty]

There has to be something to this theory. I, as a British viewer am only half way through series 2. The last episode I watched I noticed 2 pieces which were easy to miss but may add to you're theory.
1: When Charlie has a "flashback" to the hospital where he is visiting his brother's new daughter he calls the baby Erin, Clare's daughter. His brother's wife corrects him and says her name is Megan. This blew my mind with regard to the flashbacks.
2: Although not a flashback, Hurley is in the washer-room with the new Lost survivor he fancies and all of a sudden he asks if he's met her somewhere before as she is familiar. Her reaction is strange as though she knows the truth but simply comes out with some lame excuse about how he trod on her foot as he got on the plane. Hurly didnt look convinced though.
I never noticed Sawyer in the Police station when Boon was there or the picture of the island in Jin's father in laws office. I'll take you're word for it though. Sounds possible although most people just watch it for the soap opera fun of it and wont pick up on the nerdy bits like the characters appearing in the smoke in front of Echo. So they'll be the ones whose minds will be blown in series 5 or in the film whereas we'll all be disappointed that we got it wrong, half right, or right. Either way, we wont be happen when it finishes. Just hope it stays strong until the end, unlike other tv series, i.e. The X Files.

[DamRho]

There has to be something to this theory. I, as a British viewer am only half way through series 2. The last episode I watched I noticed 2 pieces which were easy to miss but may add to you're theory.
1: When Charlie has a "flashback" to the hospital where he is visiting his brother's new daughter he calls the baby Erin, Clare's daughter. His brother's wife corrects him and says her name is Megan. This blew my mind with regard to the flashbacks.
2: Although not a flashback, Hurley is in the washer-room with the new Lost survivor he fancies and all of a sudden he asks if he's met her somewhere before as she is familiar. Her reaction is strange as though she knows the truth but simply comes out with some lame excuse about how he trod on her foot as he got on the plane. Hurly didnt look convinced though.
I never noticed Sawyer in the Police station when Boon was there or the picture of the island in Jin's father in laws office. I'll take you're word for it though. Sounds possible although most people just watch it for the soap opera fun of it and wont pick up on the nerdy bits like the characters appearing in the smoke in front of Echo. So they'll be the ones whose minds will be blown in series 5 or in the film whereas we'll all be disappointed that we got it wrong, half right, or right. Either way, we wont be happen when it finishes. Just hope it stays strong until the end, unlike other tv series, i.e. The X Files.


Be patient and the answer to nr. 2 will reveal itself in one of the forecoming episodes ;)

[FrecklesAndTex]

When Charlie has a "flashback" to the hospital where he is visiting his brother's new daughter he calls the baby Erin, Clare's daughter.


um...Claire's baby is a boy and he's called Aaron, not Erin. It just sounds like that sometimes coz of her Aussie accent, and also some people pronounce Aaron 'Air-on'.

[Nice n Nasty]

Cheers folks. Look forward to finding out about Hurley.
I take it that although I was mistaken about the baby being called Erin, that Charlie did refer to his sister in laws baby as Aaron instead of Megin in the scene that I mentioned. I didnt imagine this. Bloomin' Aussie accents, ha ha.
When is season 3 starting in the US?

Can't believe it! After chatting to several people regarding the Charlie episode and not one of them recalling the reference to Aaron, I watched it again and sure enough all he said was "She's beautiful, Karen." and Karen replied "Her name's Megan." So yes indeed, I did imagine the line. Many apologies.:shock:

Mod edit: please do not double post.

[eloestee]

Cool thread. I've been pushing a theory along these lines for some time now.

I personally think the biggest question about Lost is one that most people don't think needs to be answered. The question is, what exactly are the 'Flashbacks'? And I use the word 'Flashbacks' only because that is what we all know them by.

Anyway, here is a link to my theory. It's long, but you can read my first post to get the idea. I have changed my thinking slightly since posting it last year, but I address (as someone else here did) the strange circumstances about Boone not being able to save the drowning woman.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23501

[Comandatuba]

The other day I had posted the following:

http://lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=47242

At first, I thought "Oh, just some wacky thing." Then today I read this thread and the interesting flashback theories.

To summarize, there is a dog barking while Boone and Shannon were arguing in episode 2x06. The two distinct barks sounded like Vincent to me - a deep sounding bark from a bigger dog, and there was no dog in the room. The audio mix was done in a way where it is easily missed, but is definitely there if you pay attention, and replay that segment of the DVD a couple of times with the volume cranked up a bit.

I suppose this could be just an easter egg the audio mixer threw in just for fun, but let's suppose not. Then this audio clue is definitely a strange one and hard to explain, so I agree with the idea that most of the flashbacks are not your typical cinematic flashbacks.

So, assuming the barking is Vincent, why would he be barking in the middle of Shannon's "flashback"? Thoughts?

[Sacred Knight]

I don't like the theory just because I think it would give the feel of complete wasted time during these first few seasons before the "truth" were found out. The emotional feelings that we have invested in these characters are due in large part to their backstories, who they were, just as much as who they currently are. To eventually say that none of that is true, to me would be a big blow. To me the characters make this show, not the mystery, and to be told everything I know about these characters is not real...its almost the equivilant of firing the entire cast and replacing them all with new, unknown characters.

I love big plot twists, to be made to believe something is true, find out it isn't the way you thought it was and then be able to go back and evaluate things that happened in a new light once you know the truth. But there's nothing to evaluate if this were a plot twist. For example, I'd go back and watch an episode and probably want to just skip the flashbacks altogether, because this plot twist, instead of giving a certain set of circumstances a new truth, instead just renders the circumstance completely worthless. In this case that circumstance being all backstories we've seen thus far.

[lopix]

First post, jumping right in...

I think there are 2 easy explanations for the flashbacks.

1) Everyone on the island is interconnected in some way, which will have relevance to the story at some point. How did the others know the names of the people they wanted Michael to bring back? They got those names from somewhere... Yes, they could have stolen the manifest, but that would only give them names, not tell them anything about the people behind the names. The relationships must be important, the fact that they are all connected.

OR

2) The connections are just one of those things, something to show how everyone's lives are connected, in some way. Almost like a big visual representation of the old "6 degrees of separation". Mind you, that has been proven to be closer to 4 or 5 degress, but that is not the point. Almost an easter egg of sorts, showing how all the characters' lives interweaved in the world before they became trapped on the island.

[John Burger]

Hi guys

First post.

I have the benefit of not ever waiting to watch this show till now. I didnt see any of Lost it until the season finale--I then watched all the shows in a row over a few days. So Im kind of immune to all the guessing that went on. Im not expert and dont everything the producers said..but I know some of it.

The flashbacks are Memories..not back stories in the sense of the word. A back story in writing is true. A memory is the person's recollection of events and with all our memories..they contain errors.

The people are thinking back to their past based on the present situation. The memories always relate to the current situation the character is in at the time. Its a writing technique. Thats clear

Anyone who knows JJ from Alias can see this is the technique he brought to the show and the current writers are following this format. (Alias was true back story yet there was also a new concept added in which Sydney had her memory wiped and, to her, she went ahead in time 2 years and had to slowly recall her past. This is a full blown expansion of JJ's idea

If you can understand this as JJ expanding this technique to be part of every episode(a formula he used in Alias and Mission Impossible)you can see how the false memory theory is incorrect or highly improbable. Trust me. I thought of this theory as I was watching, obviously before reading it here, and it cant stand

However, They are memories , and like I said, the recollections have errors. It is most likely that the random occurance of numbers in the recollections are the character implanting the numbers into their memory.

Desmond borrowing 4 dollars from his Elizabeth..when it could have been 3. Saying he needed $42,000 when it was probably another number.

If you are familiar with memory movies--13 Monkeys(bruce Willis..see it guys ..4 stars) He remembers events like we all do..we get some right..we get particulars wrong. One example is he implants the face of Brad pit over the real culprit in his memory in the Airport. We make these kind of errors all the time.

Its most likely the forces of destiny, coincidence, and incorrect recollection. Trust me..I love the idea of scientific memory implanting ala "Nowhere man"..but no way is it possible given this story. The others did see the plane really crash and the jist of the memories are real...yet some details are incorrect.

I do have a related theory on Desmond, the lottery numbers(which are not incorrect recollection) but I'll make a new Thread for that.

[benos]

From when Henry put on that tv to show that the red sox won the world series, i had some questions that Sawyer's flashback with Jack's dad was not real for some reason.

[Sleezy]

From when Henry put on that tv to show that the red sox won the world series, i had some questions that Sawyer's flashback with Jack's dad was not real for some reason.

So when "ben" put on that old tape of the redsox winning the world series ...you immediately thought , hey , sawyer's flashback with jack's dad isn't real?

Are you lost or are you watching lost? :shock:


How does this make any sense to you ? Please explain.

[shred]

The revelation that the Others know all about the losties gives new support to this idea that the flashbacks could be fake. I'm not ready yet to accept this idea, but last week's episode did at least lend some credibility to the thoery.

[Sleezy]

The revelation that the Others know all about the losties gives new support to this idea that the flashbacks could be fake.



ok , again , how would them playing a red sox game on tv and the revelation that the others know all about the losties and given the "fact" that the airplane crashed on that island by accident.....give the impression that all the flashbacks fake? :confused:

[Speedie]

As has already been said the flashbacks make a fairly high proportion of the show, for them to then show that these where fake, would render a high proportion of what we have watched usless, pointless and a darn waste of time. Nope, couldn't say I'd be happy with that. If on the other hand it turned out that the flashbacks where mostly true memories and that most of the character connections didn't take place but have somehow become part of that memory I could maybe go with that.

[pat_the_geek]

the flashbacks have to be real, becuase they are for us the viewers and not for the losties, as none of them has access to what each characters is thinking at the moment thse flashbacks appears.

[Recluse8747]

Hi guys

First post.

I have the benefit of not ever waiting to watch this show till now. I didnt see any of Lost it until the season finale--I then watched all the shows in a row over a few days. So Im kind of immune to all the guessing that went on. Im not expert and dont everything the producers said..but I know some of it.

The flashbacks are Memories..not back stories in the sense of the word. A back story in writing is true. A memory is the person's recollection of events and with all our memories..they contain errors.

The people are thinking back to their past based on the present situation. The memories always relate to the current situation the character is in at the time. Its a writing technique. Thats clear

Anyone who knows JJ from Alias can see this is the technique he brought to the show and the current writers are following this format. (Alias was true back story yet there was also a new concept added in which Sydney had her memory wiped and, to her, she went ahead in time 2 years and had to slowly recall her past. This is a full blown expansion of JJ's idea

If you can understand this as JJ expanding this technique to be part of every episode(a formula he used in Alias and Mission Impossible)you can see how the false memory theory is incorrect or highly improbable. Trust me. I thought of this theory as I was watching, obviously before reading it here, and it cant stand

However, They are memories , and like I said, the recollections have errors. It is most likely that the random occurance of numbers in the recollections are the character implanting the numbers into their memory.

Desmond borrowing 4 dollars from his Elizabeth..when it could have been 3. Saying he needed $42,000 when it was probably another number.

If you are familiar with memory movies--13 Monkeys(bruce Willis..see it guys ..4 stars) He remembers events like we all do..we get some right..we get particulars wrong. One example is he implants the face of Brad pit over the real culprit in his memory in the Airport. We make these kind of errors all the time.

Its most likely the forces of destiny, coincidence, and incorrect recollection. Trust me..I love the idea of scientific memory implanting ala "Nowhere man"..but no way is it possible given this story. The others did see the plane really crash and the jist of the memories are real...yet some details are incorrect.

I do have a related theory on Desmond, the lottery numbers(which are not incorrect recollection) but I'll make a new Thread for that.


I never put much credence in the theory of the flashbacks being false. As others have noted, they make up 1/3 of the story so for them to be false would be a huge waste of time for the viewers and take a lot of weight out of the story.

But I like the theory of the flashbacks containing errors.

Tonight's episode made me think of movies like "Lost Highway" and "12 Monkey" during Lock's flashbacks. The undercover cop first appears to Lock wearing a Gerihnamo (?) Jackson T-shirt. When Lock first takes him to the commune they pass a steam tent like the hut Lock builds for himself in the episode. Later on the cop refernces several of the phrases Ben Linus said to Lock in the hatch.

It's as if elements of Lock's recent past are becoming peramently implanted on other moments of his life. As a whole it seems like the connections between the numerous characters on the show has grown steadily with each episode. We're seeing increasingly more connections because the Losties' memories are becoming distorted and adopting elements of what they've witnessed/experienced on the island the longer they stay there.

[mike_houghton98]

K so if the flashbacks are fakes... or have errors, what about Desmonds wife looking for him, was that a flashback?

[Worst Tiler]

I never put much credence in the theory of the flashbacks being false. As others have noted, they make up 1/3 of the story so for them to be false would be a huge waste of time for the viewers and take a lot of weight out of the story.

But I like the theory of the flashbacks containing errors.

Tonight's episode made me think of movies like "Lost Highway" and "12 Monkey" during Lock's flashbacks. The undercover cop first appears to Lock wearing a Gerihnamo (?) Jackson T-shirt. When Lock first takes him to the commune they pass a steam tent like the hut Lock builds for himself in the episode. Later on the cop refernces several of the phrases Ben Linus said to Lock in the hatch.

It's as if elements of Lock's recent past are becoming peramently implanted on other moments of his life. As a whole it seems like the connections between the numerous characters on the show has grown steadily with each episode. We're seeing increasingly more connections because the Losties' memories are becoming distorted and adopting elements of what they've witnessed/experienced on the island the longer they stay there.

I agree - I don't think all of their memories are fake, BUT, I do think that their memories are being altered as time goes on...things are being added and/or changed for some reason.

[shred]

Worst Tiler, it's nice to see you back in Theories. I think you've been gone for awhile.

The flashbacks are probaly not fake, but I do think the people having them are "misremembering" some things. It's curious that we don't really know if the characters are remembering or if we are being given special insights into their histories. I have been pondering on that for some time...

[Recluse8747]

I agree - I don't think all of their memories are fake, BUT, I do think that their memories are being altered as time goes on...things are being added and/or changed for some reason.


The 'distorted memory' angle could explain the highly debated "My whole life" phrase Ben utters. My opinion of the Others is that they're primarily comprised of test subjects from Dharma's utopian socialism experiment with a few of the orginial scientists. They were brought to the island as children in the early 70s. After several decades on the island many of the Others' memories have become so distorted that they can no longer distinguish between memories of a past life before being on the island and what they've experienced since arriving there. Ben says that he has lived on the island his whole life and is telling the truth from his perspective because he can no longer distinguish between his current life and a time when he wasn't living on the island.

[ctrlz]

The flashbacks are probably not fake, but I do think the people having them are "misremembering" some things. It's curious that we don't really know if the characters are remembering or if we are being given special insights into their histories. I have been pondering on that for some time...
This would certainly explain why it took us three seasons to learn that Jack is/was psychotically obsessed with learning the identity of his ex-wife's boyfriend. What next? Do we learn he became a doctor because his mother died of a fatal spinal tumor?

I also don't get the revelation that Sawyer might have a daughter. What's even more perplexing is that he would put money into her account without any evidence 1) the child exists or 2) is really his. This is wholly inconsistent with his cynical "con man" persona. So, is he secretly dreaming of having babies with Kate and that causes him to "mis-remember" his own life?

[junebug13669]

I've somehow gotten a twisted theory into my head and I'm gonna try and explain it here cause ut's kinda simliar.


The Losties who "crashed" on the Island-they're not really plane crash survivors. The whole group are actually Others who agreed to take part in an experiment on the other Island. Then, they had false memories implanted into their heads and were tossed on our Island.

[Mevie fan]

The Losties who "crashed" on the Island-they're not really plane crash survivors. The whole group are actually Others who agreed to take part in an experiment on the other Island. Then, they had false memories implanted into their heads and were tossed on our Island
I had similar thought :)

[St. Lo]

Geez...who was the poor bastard Other that volunteered to be Edward Mars, and take the piece of metal in the gut?

[kitten091182]

ive just been watching the pilot episode again, and in jack, charlies and kates flashbacks, their memories of what happened on the plane are slightly different!!!!
In jacks flashback, when cindy makes the announcement that the fasten seat belt signs have been lit, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the PILOT has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
In charlies flashback, when cindy makes the same announcement, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
And in kates flashback, cindy says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has SWITCHED ON the fasten seat belt signs......'
?????!!!!!!
This cant just be a production error?!
This surely proves that the losties flashbacks have been altered in some way? And if so, what are we to believe is true or not?
I think this could also be the big clue we all missed in the pilot episode.

what do u think? watch it again, its really spooky!!!

[Stone Age]

^ Good find there, kitten!

I just don't think they are THAT good with the production of the show that there aren't any continuity errors. That's what I would really chalk that up to. There was an error some time back with people walking in the background, and in another cut, the same people walked by again. This was owned up by the producers as an editing error. It happens.

If they were going to go down the path of showing discrepancies in flashbacks, it would be more obvious than this IMO.

[benos]

It's what the monster is forgetting. the monster is lost trying to find each character's memories. It makes the memories altered in some way.

[~Melissa]

ive just been watching the pilot episode again, and in jack, charlies and kates flashbacks, their memories of what happened on the plane are slightly different!!!!
In jacks flashback, when cindy makes the announcement that the fasten seat belt signs have been lit, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the PILOT has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
In charlies flashback, when cindy makes the same announcement, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
And in kates flashback, cindy says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has SWITCHED ON the fasten seat belt signs......'
?????!!!!!!
This cant just be a production error?!
This surely proves that the losties flashbacks have been altered in some way? And if so, what are we to believe is true or not?
I think this could also be the big clue we all missed in the pilot episode.

what do u think? watch it again, its really spooky!!!

Wow that's really intersting and freaky...I doubt it's a goof becasue they wouldn't of got it wrong two times!

[demented drummer]

ive just been watching the pilot episode again, and in jack, charlies and kates flashbacks, their memories of what happened on the plane are slightly different!!!!
In jacks flashback, when cindy makes the announcement that the fasten seat belt signs have been lit, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the PILOT has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
In charlies flashback, when cindy makes the same announcement, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
And in kates flashback, cindy says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has SWITCHED ON the fasten seat belt signs......'
?????!!!!!!
This cant just be a production error?!
This surely proves that the losties flashbacks have been altered in some way? And if so, what are we to believe is true or not?
I think this could also be the big clue we all missed in the pilot episode.

what do u think? watch it again, its really spooky!!!

Nice catch! I had never noticed that before or heard of anyone noticing! :)

I think its probably just an error, clues would have to be a bit more obvious so most regular viewers who don't visit LOST site's would notice. But a great find never the less. :cool:

[benos]

Geez...who was the poor bastard Other that volunteered to be Edward Mars, and take the piece of metal in the gut?

Edward Mars died, but remember, others do not care to die, but then the survivors wake up and find it all a dream.

:eh: :giggle:

[Kriegster]

umm yes they did have cellphones. (there was no service)

[Stick]

I've held this theory for a long time, fashioning it along the lines of "Dark City". For those of you who have not seen that film, a race of aliens conducts behavioral experiments on people by changing their histories night after night, and recording how they behave when they believe their life circumstances are different.

In Dark City, the false memories were concocted (by Keifer Sutherland) in a laboratory and injected as a fluid in a syringe, but in Lost it could simply just be post-hypnotic suggestion. The aliens in Dark City also had a factory where they produced props to enhance the people's memories. Similar props may have been fashioned on LOST; photographs, toy airplanes, plane wreckage...

Those who would be upset to find out the what they've been watching in the flashbacks isn't "real" are misunderstanding. The flashbacks are VERY real to the characters, and that's all that matters. Even though they are fabricated, they are the very basis for everything we see these characters doing. The creators of LOST are blurring the lines between the writers coming up with a character's backstory vs. other characters in the show coming up with the character's backstories. We haven't been "lied to" with phony flashbacks. The flashbacks are the essence of the foundations of the characters. From that point of view, whether they are real or "fake" is irrelevant.

People have said that seeing Penny off the island, searching for Desmond, spoils the theory. That's insufficient - we have NO proof of who or what Penny was looking for. And even if she was looking for Desmond, that does not confirm that his memories of her are the same that she holds. Perhaps she is the one running the experiment. That was a very, very brief scene, and as we've seen on LOST many times, things aren't always as they appear.

I've seen someone suggest that because the Others saw the plane crash, it must have really happened. How do you know the Others aren't also subjects in this experiment?? Again, you are taking a whole lot on faith.

The suggested-memories theory is very nice in that there is no other theory that explains so many of the mysteries - how a handicapped man can walk again (he never really was handicapped). How a cancer patient can magically be cured (she never really had cancer). How there can be so many coincidences between the survivors off the island (common fathers, common acquantences). How there can be so many coincidences between people's lives on and off the island (numbers, white cats, etc). How a person can think he sees the future.

I predicted back in Season 1, when I first subscribed to this theory, that someday, we'd start seeing the people from the flashbacks suddenly appearing on the island. Lo and behold, what's happening now? The theory holds that the people from the flashbacks were/are present when the hypnotic suggestion is taking place on the island; perhaps they are even the people conducting it.

Tabula Rasa. The name of the first episode (after the Pilot). Says it all.

To those who flatly reject this theory, I kindly suggest you open up to it a bit.. maybe even get used to it, sooner rather than later. ;)

[ThisIslandEarth]

ive just been watching the pilot episode again, and in jack, charlies and kates flashbacks, their memories of what happened on the plane are slightly different!!!!
In jacks flashback, when cindy makes the announcement that the fasten seat belt signs have been lit, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the PILOT has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
In charlies flashback, when cindy makes the same announcement, she says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has TURNED ON the fasten seat belt signs.......'
And in kates flashback, cindy says ' ladies and gentlemen, the CAPTAIN has SWITCHED ON the fasten seat belt signs......'
?????!!!!!!
This cant just be a production error?!
This surely proves that the losties flashbacks have been altered in some way? And if so, what are we to believe is true or not?
I think this could also be the big clue we all missed in the pilot episode.

what do u think? watch it again, its really spooky!!!

Wow. That's a great catch. Haven't the writers been saying that there's something from the pilot episode that we nit-pickers have overlooked? Based upon the subtle but distinct differences in these lines, and the fact that between the writers, the continuity person, and the actress delivering the lines, someone would have caught the error, it's a safe guess that these differences have to be intentional.

My question is: What does it mean? What theory does this support?

All I can presume is that the memories we are witnessing are not accurate.

[cmcerlane]

Last night as I was driving home this thought came to me. What if the Islandrepresents that point in time where the creator, higher power, director of the universe, whatever you want to call it. Did really just create life.

Okay follow me here:

Higher Power creates the earth and than he has to populate it. So he choose a place and begins the human race. He creates different groups of people. i.e the others, the surviors, the Dharma people, he gives these people memories so they can bgin to populate the earth.

Could it be the story of creationism as it would happen today?

I understand that I am new to this forum but can it be just this simple or does it have to be more????

Mac

[Exie]

I thought we had a Higher Power/Creation theory thread, but I cant find it right this minute. For now, I'm merging your thread here.

[doorman]

Haven't the writers been saying that there's something from the pilot episode that we nit-pickers have overlooked?

They just "debunked" this rumour in the latest podcast.

[Stick]

Still believing the flashbacks-are-fake theory. The new info on the crash of flight 815 supports it.

There was a real flight 815, it really did crash, and it really was found.

But the losties were never on it.

The staged crash was the one on the island.

[benos]

Unless, they somehow gained memories of the now dead passengers thanks to some memory thing from the others, and now made the flight 185 crash look real. I think they knew that cerebus was on it's own mission. And knew it would blow up the engine.

[Exie]

I wasnt a big fan of this theory but now I'm beginning to wonder. Why couldnt it all be a setup? :shifty: Which would necessitate the implanted memories, a la Total Recall.

[Stick]

It doesn't even have to be implanted memories or anything of a sci-fi nature. The Losties could be functioning under some kind of post-hypnotic suggestion. I'm sure this is quite possible in the world of "pseudo-science".

My favorite aspect of this theory is how it answers so many of the mysteries in one, relatively simple explanation. I've yet to hear a more efficient theory that so easily explains the one-degree of separation between so many of the Losties.

And I doubt that the Others are behind this. It's possible they're just as much a part of the experiment as the Losties.

[Bowromir]

I really like this theory and it would be a good explanation for alot of things.. and also the fact that we've seen the plane crash in Ep 1 of Season 3 doesnt prove anything.. because it was a Julliet flashback and Julliet could have been hypnotized/memory altered aswell.. i'm really curious if this theory will stay relevant :)

[Rockagirl91]

I don't believe this theory for a second! Come on guys, we've been watching this show for 3 seasons now and in every episode there has been a flashback. Why on earth would wee see these flashbacks if they wore fake all alone?!
It would be much easier if someone staged the other plane, the one they fond in the sea.
This is a TV show so anything can happen but i don't think this theory is the producers plan. I think they have something much bigger to show us.

[peopleperson]

My two cents...

I think the island itself is responsible for alterations to the memories of the characters, not Dharma, and not the others.

[Stick]

Bowromir - Yep, and all the Others could be working under manipulated or suggested memories as well.

peopleperson - Very interesting. I guess I've assumed that part of this theory is that the island isn't actually extraordinary. It doesn't make handicapped people walk (Locke was never paralyzed), it doesn't cure cancer (Rose never had it), etc. But there is some funky stuff going on with the electromagnetism, etc, so perhaps the island itself is responsible. Not to mention the smoke monster.

Rockagirl91 - But the flashbacks aren't really "fake" - depending on your point of view. To the Losties, they are very real. And that's all that really matters, don't you think? The flashbacks have been presented in the context of explaining why these people behave the way they do on the island. From that aspect, it doesn't matter if their memories are real or imagined. We are observing these people and how they function vis-a-vis their past, just like the conductors of the experiment are observing them. Therefore I don't see it as any kind of rip-off if the flashbacks aren't "real".

[VeniceQueen]

Your theory is wrong.

[vir2l]

remember the very first episode where jack woke up in the jungle. obviously he was the only one thrown into the jungle and woke up quite late because the rest of the losties were already screaming and stuff... so maybe this was all staged for jack! remember he's the main character of this show so there has to be more about him than just that plain doctor crap.

also i do believe that lost is about deception, lies and fake characters. we are often mislead by that directors.

[Hatch Handle]

i am currently getting towards the end of a book caled 'Trance State' by John Case. Although not the greatest book i have read i have been distracted into thinking how the goings on in the book could also be the story behind lost. Im not going to post spolier tags about a book that most people will not read so if you dont want to know what happens in the book then please look away now (as they say on the news about the football results).

One of the main characters in the book is a guy called Lew Mcbride who turns out to have been the victim of mind control experiments. For a while he thought he was a psycologist named Jeff Duran. He had memories of being Jeff Duran as a child and growing up as this other person. He had memories of going on holiday as this other person to other countries. The problem is though Jeff Duran died years before as an infant. Lew as it turns out has an implant in his brain which has manipulated all his long term memories. He knows how to sail, talk in foreign languages and carry out certain other tasks without remembering learning these skills. All he knows is he can do them. To cut a long story short, he cottons onto the idea that all is not as it seems and he has the implant removed and through regression his real, suppressed long term memories come back to him. He also stumbles across the institution that placed the implant there. The institution is actually a black budget counterpart of the CIA who have been placing the implants into people who are considered to be social misfits (people with drug addictions and severe eating disorders). The institute are then sending these people out on assasination missions with no recollection of who they actually are and what the institute really is.

How does this tie into lost i here you ask. Well lets consider the point of this thread 'fake flashbacks'. I have a theory that each the people on this island others/losties etc have all been victims of the same type of experiment. Implants (or something along these lines) have been placed into the brains of these people giving them totally new long term memories and skills they havent actually learnt. Maybe they arent who they say they are and actually jack, sawyer, kate et al are a buch of social misfits who have been plucked from obscurity and given totally new identites and memories.

ie. there was no plane crash. the whole site was staged and the losties woke up from their 'induced sleep' thinking that they had just been part of a major disaster.

jack isnt really a surgeon but has been manipulated into thinking he is and with enough manipulation actually knows how to carry out surgery and other doctorly duties withough ever having been to med school

for all we know Jin may be able to speak perfect english its just that the implant in his head tells him otherwise

i would even go as far to say that christian shepherd doesnt actually exist but jack, claire, sawyer and ana lucia have bee brainwashed into thinking he has been a part of thier life in the past

I know i am reaching on this and to be honest, putting into words what is in my head has never been my strong point, but for the first time in 3 seasons i have a strong feeling that 'fake flashback' could be a very realistic possibilty

i know it doesnt explain things like smokey and such like but there could be any number of things going on here. the island could be one great big abandoned science lab (much like site 2 in the jurassic park trilogy) where mind control, nanotechnology, remote viewing and other sciency things are, or were, taking place. And then there is desmond........

[ctrlz]

for all we know Jin may be able to speak perfect english its just that the implant in his head tells him otherwise

i would even go as far to say that christian shepherd doesnt actually exist but jack, claire, sawyer and ana lucia have bee brainwashed into thinking he has been a part of thier life in the past

This theory still has legs, and I think the introduction of the idea of "implants" causing Claire's symptoms only added to its viability.

The flashforward business takes it even further. It's interesting to compare how the show presented Desmond as having "visions" and Jack as having "flashforwards." Desmond's experiences were fleeting, but seemed to correlate very accurately with real future events (and the producers tell us what happens on the island really happens in real-time). Jack's "flashforwards" were more like conscious, voluntary recollections with much more detail. But nothing in the show confirms or refutes those "memories"... yet.

[shred]

I have never been a fan of this theory, but this "flashforward" stuff puts the validity of the "flashbacks" on the table.

ctrlz, I too am perplexed by the Desmond "flashes" idea as opposed to the Jack "flashforward" device. Desmond remains on the island. Jack, apparently, doesn't.

I hate this show.:mad:

[mitchellstafiej]

Why would the producers put them in the story then? Not a great theory.

Mitchell

[krasjim]

The flashbacks are real, and they include clues to what is going to happen. Most importantly are how the characters interconnect before the crash. This shows us that we are all connected in one way or another. The references to Stephen King are important, King likes to have good and evil. The devil is very evident in The stand, and aliens are the bad guys in Tommy Knockers. In Tommey Knockers aliens encircle a town with an invisible mesh and people can't leave, inthe meantime they develop interesting powers and characteristics. Pay attention to, special people.

One thing that would make everything work is that it is all a dream. Every person interacting with each other at some point would explain a dream sense where you can only dream of people you have seen. The references to The Wizzard of Oz, (Ben being Henry Gale, Desmond seeing the man with the red sneakers have a building drop on him, not to mention the the Ocianic flight being Dorothy's house. are so like the Wizzard of Oz, we only need for one character, (like Hugo) to wake up in a mental institution after some drug induced coma and surrounded by patients, doctors and visitors who were characters in the dream. The story is full of cons and con artist, are we simply being conn?

[Hellen]

Anyone read the Philip K. Dick novel, Ubik? It's about a group of people in a sort of comatose state. The facility they're in is able to connect them all to a computer which reads their thoughts and generates a shared virtual environment. The computer starts to fail and inconsistencies and coincidences within the environment slowly let the patients figure out that their world isn't real. (It's been years since I read it, so the memory is hazy.)

I know the producers have said that it's not a dream and that the island is real, but isn't it possible that they don't mean this literally? It's real within the context of this fictional universe, but not real physically. I think they're essentially lying to keep the mystery going, but that there'll be some lame justification afterward.

So basically, I think the writers ripped off Ubik and elements from other Dick novels.


It would explain things popping up on the island from peoples' past (Kate's horse, Locke's dad, etc.). This could be computer glitch allowing memories to enter the virtual environment.
The connections in peoples' pasts come from their being hooked up to the same computer.
Notice how nearly everyone has an awesome past? We've got a rock star, brilliant surgeon, exciting criminals, psychics, and medical miracles. Maybe these are their fantasies.
Ben is starting to figure things out, which is why he has some control and can pull things out of that magic box.
All the new characters who show up on the island are new patients. They're hooked up to the computer and made to believe a backstory that fits with the rest.


These people's pasts are just too connected to each other and the island. I don't see how they can resolve this without using some sort of virtual reality/shared dream or a god manipulating everyone's lives.

I liked the comparisons to Dark City and Total Recall. Those also make sense to me. The Matrix could have also been plagiarized/used as inspiration.

[AliCat]

So, I can't be the only person thinking after last week's episode that the Flashbacks/Forwards aren't just flashes, can I?

Who here thinks ALL the Losties are flashing around in time and just intersecting on the Island? :popcorn: I'm waiting for the Big Reveal. :popcorn:

[shred]

So, I can't be the only person thinking after last week's episode that the Flashbacks/Forwards aren't just flashes, can I?

Who here thinks ALL the Losties are flashing around in time and just intersecting on the Island? :popcorn: I'm waiting for the Big Reveal. :popcorn:
This idea makes sense, Ali. After Desmond's first "trip" (from which I still have whiplash) I began to wonder if everyone else's flashbacks were authentic and true. "Interesecting on the island" is a good way to put it.

[Stick]

I used to be a proponent of the "false memories" theory. I think it's been pretty much disproved over the past few seasons. However, the introduction of time travel into the series, I think, brings that theory back, but in a different form:

We've seen that people on the island, such as Desmond, can somehow have their consciousness transferred to their past selves. For Desmond, it's a reaction to electromagnetism that he can't control.

But, what if other people on the island can control it?

So picture this. A bunch of random people (the Losties) crash on the island in an uncontrolled event (confirmed in a podcast that Desmond did in fact crash the plane by accident). But it seems these people's pasts have a great deal of interconnectedness, and several of them (the "list"?) have some kind of purpose on the island. How could all these coincidences happen amidst a random event?

I could happen if, after the crash, certain people on the island (Others? Dharma? Jacob?) can, on demand, transfer their consciousness into the past, and retroactively influence these people's lives.

Need Locke to not die when he is shot in the kidney? Have the man from Tallahassee flip himself back in time and con him into giving up his kidney. Suddenly, Locke wakes up.

Need a spinal surgeon on the island? Have Christian Shepard flip himself back in time and influence Jack to become a spinal surgeon. Suddenly you have a spinal surgeon on the island.

Need Sawyer to have some kind of personal demons (not sure why)? Hey, get the man from Tallahassee again to flip back in time and con Sawyer's parents into killing themselves.

Need Ana Lucia on the island (again, not sure why yet)? Have good old Christian flip back again and convince her to go to Australia.

This could also somehow explain how the numbers existed in Hurley's life prior to the island.

Perhaps this is how Tom gets back to the states to hang out with Michael.

And even more interesting, does Libby somehow have this ability too? That could explain how she appears in the past with both Hurley and Desmond. Maybe if you die on the island, you get this ability?

Another neat thing about this theory is that it also answers why Jack is so despondent in the future. Perhaps he found out that his life is a lie; he was a different person altogether until someone on the island changed him. That could also answer why he wants to go back to the island so badly. Maybe if he goes back, he too can learn this power, and go back in time and change things.

This theory needs some fleshing-out, but it certainly goes a long way towards explaining how there can be so many coincidences leading up to a random event: the preceding events were manipulated retroactively!