View Full Version : book "The Third Policeman" reveals much...
Lotto#4815162342
09-28-2005, 05:42 PM
The writers have said that there are certain books that, if you have read them, will help you in understanding what is going to be happening. One of these books is 'The Third Policeman' written by Flann O' Brien. On another board someone left a description of the book at amazon, here it is;
Book Description
Fiction. The last of O'Brien's novels to be published and now reissued by Dalkey Archive, THE THIRD POLICEMAN is Flann O'Brien's brilliant comic novel about the nature of time, death, and existence. Told by a narrator who has committed a botche d robbery and brutal murder, the novel follows him and his adventures in a two-dimensional police station where he is intruduced to "Atomic Theory" and its relation to bicycles, the existence of eternity (which turns out to be just down the road), and the view that the earth is not round but "sausage-shaped."
Has anyone read it? I think I might check sparknotes, to lazy to read it :D
shred
09-28-2005, 08:19 PM
Has anyone read it? I think I might check sparknotes, to lazy to read it :D
I guess I'm not too lazy to read, so I'm reading this book. This clue was pointed out in at least three other threads on the forum. Hmm...I'll bet this would be another thing a person who used the search button could find.
Leigh
09-30-2005, 11:44 PM
How 'bout someone use the button called don't be a sarcastic arse?
No need to be rude shred...your not a mod...and your not all-knowing. Not eveyone has a bunch of time to make sure there's no topic on what they want to discuss. Especially if it's not obvious....searching is just time consuming and annoying unless the other threads are easy to find.
Lotto#4815162342
10-01-2005, 03:01 AM
Thanx Leigh!
Lotto#4815162342
10-01-2005, 03:02 AM
Oh, and ur right it is time consuming, that's why I choose to just write and hope it hasn't been written yet.
My college library has it :D can't wait to read it.
Ascromortar
10-01-2005, 11:33 AM
It's time consuming to type in 'The Third Policemen' in the Forum's SEARCH BAR and click 'Search'?
Oh my God! That's like, what? Ten seconds of your time?
Give me a break...
I read "the Dalkey Archive". Very clever. I love the theory about people becoming bicycles. :LOL:
Literate work. I might put the Third Policeman (gee that took a long time to type) on my list of 'to reads'.
Lotto#4815162342
10-02-2005, 07:47 PM
Where is the forums SEARCH BAR? I can't find it!
Lotto#4815162342
10-02-2005, 07:48 PM
Nevermind I actually found it!!! Thank you=)
Quiet Tempest
10-04-2005, 07:03 PM
I haven't, personally, read the book, but my friend has. He doesn't watch Lost (YET), though.. I'm trying to get him to watch Season one and get caught up so I have someone else more my age to speculate with. ;)
Anyway, he gave the following info about the book that might apply to Lost:
It's sort of like Alice in Wonderland that way... everyone had their own special obsession.
What people thought and believed seemed to affect the actual world. What direction you traveled in also affected reality. The cracks on a ceiling formed into a map of the region, which led to a hidden underground area called 'Eternity' where no one aged, got hungry, got drunk or sobered up, etc... cigarettes didn't burn down, bottles never emptied, and so on, and time didn't pass when you left.
There was a substance 'omnium' that allowed the creation of anything and reshaping of reality. The man who controlled it had created eternity, and was the cause of the strange ideas in everyone else, by reshaping their reality.
Think that helps better understand any of all this?
shred
10-04-2005, 08:24 PM
I read the book. We're talking about it over on the theory board.
Edit: Keep an eye out for the book. The articles about it say it will be seen for a moment at a "key moment" in the show. Knowing the key moment will help is finding connections between 3rd Policeman and Lost. There are LOTS of things going on in that book.
reciprocity
10-06-2005, 12:46 PM
I didn't see the book in the show did anyone else?
radkon
10-06-2005, 01:11 PM
Yep I saw it. It was on the bed or bench. I saw it for a quick second and mentioned it to the wife.
reciprocity
10-06-2005, 01:43 PM
in the hatch I assume. so it was not a "key moment"?
Like I said above I've read the "Dalkey Archive" and many of the themes are similar.
- you don't really 'die' per se... you continue on in a place with other dead able to see the living but contact is difficult but possible.
- if you ride on a bicycle long enough you become part bicycle and the bicycle becomes part you. This is do to atoms pounding against one another and mixing. (It's meant to be funny)
I don't know that I believe it is truly that significant... we'll see.
honeybee
10-06-2005, 02:29 PM
i did a search on my library's website and they dont even have this book listed! Guess Im gonna go have to buy it.
oh_danny_boy
10-06-2005, 03:16 PM
I've read the book a couple of times, although it was a few years ago. The guy who wrote it was a bit of a drunk and irish, but we shouldn't make any connection there! He wasn't really well read at the time but now he's fairly popular in literary circles (dont count me in them!). The whole book is basically about someone going to hell, but that only dawns on you as you continue to read the book.
The basic plot is that the main guy has killed somebody for money, but cant then get his hands on it - it's in a box that he can't find I think - he then sets off and finds that the world has changed. The world around him is not the one that was there the night before. The story, in terms of events, is that he wonders round and meets people - the mood is sometimes very much like waiting for godot, a kind of bland surealism.
Here's two examples:
The policeman are out looking for missing bikes (the main guy some how gets caught up in this - I cant remember how), but there is this crazy conversation about how the people who ride the bikes are becoming like the bikes - and vice versa. So there's a little bit of the person in the bike and a little bit of the bike in the person. Hence the importance of finding the bikes.
Another stroke of strangness is when they come in the police station and interrupt a guy who is making smaller and smaller caskets each of which fit inside each other. They accidentally make him drop the casket. But wait for it, the casket he is making is so small it can't be seen by the naked eye! But by chance he happens to pick it up from the exact spot it drops to.
That should give you some idea of the tone of the book.
Eventually the book comes right back to the start and you realise that he is basically stuck in one of the circles of hell and can't get out. Very much influenced by the forties fervent catholicism. How it relates to lost is difficult to say. The most obvious thing is that he is in an altered universe where different rules apply. But of course the fact that this is not hell has been confirmed many times.
lockeproblem42
10-06-2005, 04:03 PM
Like I said above I've read the "Dalkey Archive" and many of the themes are similar.
- you don't really 'die' per se... you continue on in a place with other dead able to see the living but contact is difficult but possible.
- if you ride on a bicycle long enough you become part bicycle and the bicycle becomes part you. This is do to atoms pounding against one another and mixing. (It's meant to be funny)
I don't know that I believe it is truly that significant... we'll see.
This is interesting in connection with the other book that was featured on the show, The Turn of the Screw. The movie, The Others, is based on The Turn of the Screw and is about a woman who thinks she sees ghosts and what not and comes to find out that she is one...
Have you read Dalkey Archives. Same bike theory is expounded by the same character.
pshkbb
10-06-2005, 04:23 PM
been a lurker thru season one and now think I should join in - someone asked when the "key moment" that the book was seen and I thought I'd mention that the book was seen being pulled out when Locke and Jack were looking for orientation tape..... hmmmmmmmmmm................
USA Today also had an article about this yesterday.
lockeproblem42
10-06-2005, 04:28 PM
been a lurker thru season one and now think I should join in - someone asked when the "key moment" that the book was seen and I thought I'd mention that the book was seen being pulled out when Locke and Jack were looking for orientation tape..... hmmmmmmmmmm................
USA Today also had an article about this yesterday.
The book that was seen with the orientation tape was The Turn of the Screw. Third Policeman was seen when Desmond was packing his stuff to leave.
Can you post the link to the USA Today article if it's online?
shred
10-06-2005, 04:28 PM
The plot of T3P is the dead guy in hell, but I think the parallel "plot" of the physicist/philosopher deSelby is more important in terms of "Lost." The nameless narrator is obssessed with this deSelby (not real person) and writes the definitive book on the guy. He wants the money he tries to steal (from the guy he kills) so he can publish his book.
DeSelby has these goofy ideas: there is no such thing as night--it's "dark air" from volcanos and industrial exhausts that make the day go dark once a day; if you set up enough mirrors, you can see yourself as a child because it takes time for the reflection to be reflected back; life is itself just an hallucination, etc. The narrator relates his experiences with the policemen to deSelby's theories.
Keep in mind, this book is supposed to be funny. Much of it is.
pshkbb
10-06-2005, 05:15 PM
whoops - I goofed the book showed up and fell out as Desmond grabbed the serum to take with him as he ran out of the hatch....
here is the article from USA Today:
Is 'Lost' a literal enigma?
By Ann Oldenburg, USA TODAY
Literary references have been sprinkled throughout the mysteries of Lost: In an episode last season, the character Sawyer was reading Watership Down by Richard Adams, the story of rabbits searching for a safe place in a threatening world. At another point, he read Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time, about time travel.
Flann O'Brien's The Third Policeman will appear in a key scene of Wednesday's Lost episode. Look for another literary reference — and possibly another clue to the island's secret — on tonight's Lost (ABC, 9 ET/PT).
At one point, someone will pick up a copy of the novel The Third Policeman by the late Irish writer Flann O'Brien. The cover will be seen for about a second, ABC confirms. (Related story: Lost in the details)
It will be featured at a "key moment" in the show, Craig Wright, who co-wrote the episode with Javier Grillo-Marxuach, told the Chicago Tribune. Wright also said anyone familiar with the book will "have a lot more ammunition" in dissecting Lost plotlines.
Following the bread-crumb trail of clues in Lost has become a passionate pastime, fueled further by a new season that has taken viewers down the hatch. In lost-tv.com's Literary Mysticism area, fans already are analyzing The Third Policeman.
So could this be a Rosetta stone for Lost?
Neither ABC nor the scriptwriters would comment on Policeman or its relation to the plot. But Amy Bauer, a music professor at the University of California-Irvine who helps organize the flood of postings on lost-tv.com, doesn't think so.
A clue such as Policeman is "offered a bit tongue-in-cheek," she says. "O'Brien was a brilliant comic writer, and his absurd take on the world may be a nod to the fans who connect every item in every scene to some overriding scheme."
In The Third Policeman, the narrator is a man who assists in a money-motivated killing. While trying to retrieve the stashed bounty, he passes into a strange world, meeting bicycles, policemen and a band of one-legged men.
Reviewers' reactions varied widely, calling the novel "warped," "silly," "baffling," "inventive" and "frightening."
Its surreal exploration of time, death and existence might be reflective of what's happening on Lost, says Chad Post of publisher Dalkey Archive Press, which is part of Illinois State University.
Speculation on The Third Policeman's cameo already has boosted sales. After the Tribune article appeared, Dalkey sold 8,000 copies in two days, says Post.
O'Brien, a pseudonym for Brian O'Nolan, finished writing the book in 1940, but it wasn't published until 1967, a year after his death. In two reissue printings during the past six years, the book sold 15,000 copies.
Here is the other article that was in USA Today yesterday:
'Lost' invites repeat viewings
By Bill Keveney, USA TODAY
Watching Lost can be a matter of seeing double.'Lost' invites repeat viewings
The Emmy-winning ABC hit serves such a dense stew of plot, character development, mystery details and fan shout-outs that some dedicated fans view episodes multiple times. (Related story: Is Lost a literal enigma?)
"I watch each episode at least twice: once for the enjoyment of the story and then to catch the clues," Brigit Wampler of Accident, Md., says via e-mail. "What may seem like a throwaway item in the show often holds keys to the future."
A growing online fan base analyzes the secrets of the hatch, the meaning of Hurley's numbers and the intersecting backgrounds of the characters while advancing myriad speculative theories.
One popular website, lost-tv.com, has grown to more than 10,000 members. It has added 2,000 since the second season started two weeks ago, says Kit Cleary, the forum's owner.
Some of the most avid viewers, those who participate in online discussions, are most interested in Lost's obscure hints and clues. But a majority of fans interviewed say they enjoy the little details as a complement to the larger character stories.
Many delight in "Easter egg" rewards for close viewing: in an airport scene in last season's finale, for example, a field hockey team's uniforms bore the now-ubiquitous numbers, as Petra Otto of Neenah, Wis., points out.
Lost producers acknowledge a smaller, vocal fan base deeply interested in "cult" aspects of the show, but they say the show's huge audience — it was last week's third-most-watched program with 23.2 million viewers — indicates broader interest. The writers seek balance, executive producer Damon Lindelof says.
Although the producers are interested in advancing the mysteries of the island, "the real story we're trying to tell is about the people," Lindelof says. "We attribute (the large audience) to the fact that people are really watching the characters, so we try to focus on that.
"The feedback that is most reassuring is not, 'Wow, we love what's in the hatch,' but 'When are Kate and Jack getting together?' or 'What's going on with Charlie and Claire and the baby?' Those are the stories that resonate on a much larger scale."
To that end, Lindelof and fellow executive producer Carlton Cuse say other Lost writers more closely monitor message boards, which attract some of the most devoted fans. Those writers act as a filter, relaying the interests of online fans while reducing the chances that they would overly influence the show's direction.
Fan grumblings that Lost didn't resolve enough mystery questions in its first-season finale influenced producers to provide a good helping of answers early this season. Tonight (9 ET/PT), Lost will provide "a mythological extravaganza," as Cuse puts it, answering who the man in the hatch is, how he got there and what he's doing there.
"While this episode is more on the mythological aspect, it's not reflective of a change in direction," Cuse says. "Next week is a Hurley episode which is fairly comedic."
The Internet amplifies the voices of intense fans, says Frank Spotnitz, a longtime producer on The X-Files. Spotnitz, now executive producer of ABC's Night Stalker, says he wrote for a larger audience but would monitor online X-Files discussions to see what the most dedicated fans picked up. Lost "has a pretty good handle on" story balance, he says.
Viewers can learn, too; eagle-eyed fans list discoveries online, such as the fact that the shark on last week's show exhibited a circular symbol similar to one seen on items in the hatch.
"I don't have to do any (detail) work, because they do it all for us," lost-tv.com's Cleary says.
Fan Cathy Udovch of El Toro, Calif., likes Lost's mix. "The clues and details are the icing on the cake, the cake being interesting characters and story plots."
The 'critical moment' when the T3P is shown in the show Desmond is leaving the hatch for the first time?(is this what is 'critical'?)
In the scene Desmond is running around gathering food and medicine...then he goes to his bed and we see the T3P...at that moment he grabs a stuffed teddy bear off of the bed. I wonder why the bear is so significant to him? (is this what is 'critical'). Any thoughts?
littleboylost
10-06-2005, 07:44 PM
I didn't see the book in the show did anyone else?
**************************
If you taped or tivo'd go to where desmond is taking the medecine vials out of the cabinet. the camera pans down to the lower shelf and then on down to the right. it shows The Third Policeman laying with what I assume to be a Bible (was blk leather with only a cross on the front). the Bible was kinda upside down.
I haven't read the 3rd Policeman but I may have to try and find it.
Out of print and hard to find.
IamLOST922
10-06-2005, 08:13 PM
Okay, this thread got me to curious. I just ordered it off of half.com for 12 bucks, including shipping. I hope that it is good.
filostlover
10-08-2005, 07:16 AM
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/febsy01/book.jpg
there's a pic of the book for those who couldnt see it :)
LottoNumbersLost
10-08-2005, 09:48 AM
Weird thought just popped into my head...
This hatch started with 2 folks on this experiment I assume.
Desmond crashes into the island and says Kelvin takes him to the hatch and they "save the world together" until Kelvin dies.
Desmond would have been the third person pushing the button if that is how it worked out. The 3rd policeman...the 3rd button pusher? Maybe another connection. Make us wonder what happend to the second of the pair of beginning button pushers. Was that the guy Hurly met in the insane asylum? or did the other partner die too? They never said.
Eh...okay...it was a weird thought I told ya! LOL
LottoNumbersLost
10-08-2005, 09:51 AM
Out of print and hard to find.
I did a search right after the show about the book and found a link to an article that said the publishing house was going to order 10 thou more copies since it was on the show. They expected a boom in sales and interest.
Sorry I didn't save the link or post about this, just read it, and I didn't feel like searching for it again. But perhaps it'll become easier to get a hold of. :-)
Top Cat
10-08-2005, 01:17 PM
Out of print and hard to find.
Hard to find??? Even in Holland I can just order it at www.bol.com!!!
Rasputin
10-08-2005, 03:47 PM
Perhaps the book itself doesn't relate. Maybe it's just a tip that there might have been more than one law enforcement officer on the plane. Wasn't there something like five guns in the locked case? Maybe Anna Lucia is a lady cop.
Hard to find at bookshops. :)
I'm not sure the book is going to be particularly revealing. Perhaps after seeing the show and finding out its secrets you could get an 'ooooh yeah' sense but probably hard to pick out beforehand.
Case in point... if you'd read "Alice in Wonderland" would you have been able to figure out the plot of "Alias"? I think not.
esco1972
10-12-2005, 04:24 AM
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/febsy01/book.jpg
there's a pic of the book for those who couldnt see it :)
they drew our attention to the third policeman book but the real clue in the pic is the upseide down cross
Henry James
10-12-2005, 06:15 AM
they drew our attention to the third policeman book but the real clue in the pic is the upseide down cross
W3RD ,... a guy at work and I have been discussing this show for a while. I'm hooked on the "Lost" Souls theory. T3P, The Turn of the Screw, and the upside down cross I think all have foreshadowing signifigance as to what the show will turn out to be. Although I think some of the people on the island may still be alive. Think of the characters on the show that have shown some forms of significant injury, or even why some people have gone though such large changes (ex. being able to walk, having a baby) and other people remain unchanged (Hurley not losing weight, Walt,... etc.)
I think in the end when everything is revealed, people that just watch the show for the sake of watching it and down't read into it like we do are going to feel somewhat disappointed and pissed that it was all a fluke,... and we'll all be going "why didn't I think of that?"
But in all seriousness, as soon as I get set on a theory, ... my buddy shoots it down with something else from the show. I really liked the everyone sold out to the devil theory for a long time,... because it seems all of the characters were in some point of DEEP desperation at some time in their life.
Lost Tar Heel
10-12-2005, 12:33 PM
I wonder what the first words on pages 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 are.
Eccoglyph
10-12-2005, 03:04 PM
I wonder what the first words on pages 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 are.
LOL - don't even start that up again. Geez.
Rasputin may be on to something, though. What significance does the title, "The Third Policeman" hold in the book? I'm just thinking about "Watership Down" and how we were reading into everything - visions, etc. - when the title was foreshadowing in itself.
And lockeproblem42 - love the Bladerunner quote. :-)
lockeproblem42
10-12-2005, 03:44 PM
I picked up the book today and right away I noticed something. The main character is missing a leg. Like Dr. Candle is missing an arm. Like the woman who told Hurley where the numbers came from. Sort of like Locke and Jacks ex-wife. There is at least one other missing limb, I saw it on a thread that I can't find anymore.
Top Cat
10-12-2005, 04:48 PM
They clearly said that people who have READ the book may have a better understanding of what is yet to come.
If they say READ THE BOOK, they don't mean SAW THE TITLE OF THE BOOK. So there has to be something in it that can shine a light on the situation. It won't be obvious but a small hint.
Sefiros
10-12-2005, 06:07 PM
Here's the exact version that was in Lost.
The Third Policeman (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/156478214X/qid=1129154691/sr=8-14/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i14_xgl/202-1356140-5650268)
Cheap(ish) too.
I just found it at the same bookstore that didn't have it last week. Hmmm.
Got the same version as the show for 12.95.
phill
11-30-2005, 10:25 AM
it was published 1967
Dirge
11-30-2005, 05:00 PM
lol
In the latest podcast they said even they have never read most of the books. And went on to say reading them is not needed to understand any of the story.
They did indeed. It was never said thought that TTP was needed to understand the story. It was said that it may contain clues to the show.
I think it's interesting and came away with some thoughts. I've been travelling so unable to post them.
there are 4 thoughts I take away (Spoilers for the Book not the show):
- deSelby's cigar shaped earth theory. Could point to the existence of a dimension alongside the survivors where the 'whisperers' are.
- The fact that for most of the book the main character is dead. The survivors could be dead. I know the producers were supposed to have said they weren't but I have never seen this first hand and am skeptical of this.
- He is destined to repeat this couple of confusing days forever alongside Divney is co conspirator. This could be an indication that the survivors may have to stay on the island forever for their 'crime' OR escape by dying only when they have reconciled their crime.
- The location of 'Eternity' under the countryside. Is there a Dharma site under the island?
I haven't seen a lot more speculation but would love it if other bookreaders would read TTP and post their thoughts.
EDIT: One more thing that I think has nothing to do with the main plotline but the army of one-legged men and the main characters own amputated leg. I don't think this is important to the main plot line but it's an interesting similarity.
magdalene
02-07-2006, 10:53 AM
Okay - I guess I will post this here. Other Third Policeman threads are archived...
Anyway,
I am reading the book and I come to the part where they go to "eternity". they are talking about how they don't have to shave because there is no time...and I think of Sawyer and his haircut. Why did they make such a big deal about pointing out that he had to get a haircut? Well, maybe because he was off the island - on the boat and his hair grew. Maybe everyone on the island doesn't need one because time has stopped or has slowed down significantly. Maybe everytime the button is pushed time is "pushed back" or "held". This would also explain why Hurley hasn't lost weight and noone seems REALLY hungry at anytime. It would explain Jack's perpetual crewcut. It would explain how SO much could happen in a such a short period of time
major holes in this..
Did Michael and Jin's hair grow too?
eating and elimination-(ewww don't want to go there...)
Claire did give birth - this would make it more plausible that time is just slow not stopped or non-existent.
and..WHY?
and I'm sorry if this has been mentioned a trillion times..I did look for it..really truly....
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