Locke: Man of Faith (Official Pro/Con Discussion)

[LOSTSOL]

I have a theory that our "buddy" Mr. Locke is in on this whole thing. Pretty much picks up on an earlier post (included below) that I posted on here that I found on another board. Locke was going to lower Kate down in the Hatch no matter how much she objected once she was down there (as seen in the ep) He only looked worried when the trees broke because he didnt want her to fall and break something or die...Desmond and Locke in the last sequence could have staged the whole thing just to get jack to submit...and i do believe Ethan was Desmond's bunk bed "buddy", look at the way Ethan was built, those guys worked out/drank protein shakes/shot up every day...

Here is my original post as to why Locke is not working in the survivors best interests................................

Interesting theory on the other board linking Locke and Ethan conspiring together...very believable..credit to this guy, runningjake

http://forums.go.com/abc/oceanic/thread?threadID=498151

1. When Hurley starts doing the Manifest he goes to the caves and is asking questions. Locke starts asking what he's doing and by the look on his face he doesn't seem to happy about it. Later, when Hurley asks his info he stays very stand-offish. If he and Ethan were working together, he would know that Ethan wouldn't be on the flight manifest and their plot would be found.

2. When they are chasing after Ethan Jack wants to go immediately, but Locke stalls and goes back to the camp, knowing that Jack can't find Ethan without him. His demeanor here really reminds me of the scene where he convinces Sayid that Sawyer is that one that knocked him on the head.

3. Once they do find the trail he wants them to stick together on the false trail, he didn't want Jack to follow Charlie's finger things. Again, if him and Ethan were working together he would want to delay the search party or least it off in the wrong direction as much as possible.

4. He builds the cradle for Claire to build her trust

5. He appears in Claire's dream right before she is captured

6. He tries to convince Boone not to go with him on the hunt for Ethan, so he could be alone (persumably he could then team up with Ethan and do whatever)

7. It still seems implassible that Ethan could carry off Charlie and Claire together by himself. Interestingly enough, when Jack mentions this Locke sides steps this question and asks why he would carry them off.

8. Maybe Ethan had help when he killed the guy on the beach, which could've very well been Locke.

9. I think at first he thought Claire's baby was the child that was important to the island, but later on he bonds more with Walt (when he teached him to throw knives) and realize Walt is the special child. He then allows Ethan to be killed by Charlie, so nobody knows that he was involved (Ethan was maybe another sacrifice to the island in this respect).

10. Locke seems to think he needs to divide the camp into "sides"

From Episode 13:

Locke: You need to put aside your differences with Sayid.

Boone: He's hitting on Shannon.

Locke [while they are crossing the stream on stepping stone rocks]:
He's very competent. We don't want to make an enemy of him. We're going to want him on our side.

11. Later on in the same episodes Locke attempts to bond with Sayid telling about being in boyscouts as a youngster.

12. It seems that in the 14th episode (and a bit in the 13th) Locke has a chance to spend more time with Walt (especially the kniff throwing thing...) and probably realizes then that Walt is the gifted child, maybe then he goes and releases Claire from Ethan, which is why we see Clair at the end of episode 14

13. Locke actually mentions that Ethan probably isn't alone in Episode 15

14. He refuses to track Ethan in 15, which makes Jack mention he has the guns... maybe Locke knew about the guns all along and wanted Jack to get them, so Ethan could be killed and nobody would know they had a connection

15. Locke sets the traps around the camps for if Ethan arrives, he could've easily made them so Ethan could find them easily and be able to penetrate the camp

16. Locke asks if Claire will get her memory back, maybe he's nervous that she will remember somehow that he was involved.

[EchoBrain]

that's very interesting..

[The Czar]

nooooooooooo my locke is good, jack is bad! garrr!

[kayla]

im impressed.that is a very good theory.

[driveshaftclaire]

oh man, why couldnt jack be the bad guy?

[Passion]

Why would Locke waste so much time trying different things to open the hatch?

Why would Locke (while alone) look so shocked and puzzled about the security system while he was in the jungle?

Locke is only on the plane because they wouldnt let him on the Walkabout, its not like he planned to be on there. If he had gone on the Walkabout, he would not have been on this flight.

[kayla]

Why would Locke waste so much time trying different things to open the hatch?

Why would Locke (while alone) look so shocked and puzzled about the security system while he was in the jungle?

Locke is only on the plane because they wouldnt let him on the Walkabout, its not like he planned to be on there. If he had gone on the Walkabout, he would not have been on this flight. you have a point there.

[elleesa]

No, Locke can't be working with Ethan. He's never been to the island before. If they were working together, and Ethan lived in the hatch with Desmond, why would Locke lead everyone to it? You'd think he would want to keep it a secret.

[AlexanderDelarge]

Locke is the man.

[Mojave]

Men of Science and Men of Faith balance each other out. You need them both.

Scientists are explorers, they are always looking for something new, some new way of explaining the world. They create theories and then try to prove them. The "world is flat" explorers wanted to know what was out there, they were scientists.

[Watership Down]

Wait a minute...trust in himself to venture into the unknown? He waited for Kate when he went back to the hatch then dropped her into the unknown.

I like Locke, but I wouldn't trust him. I wouldn't have much faith in Jack either. Matter of fact, I'll take Sun over any of them. She's the only one thus far who has demonstrated any sense. :D

[The Czar]

No, Locke can't be working with Ethan. He's never been to the island before. If they were working together, and Ethan lived in the hatch with Desmond, why would Locke lead everyone to it? You'd think he would want to keep it a secret.
he tried to keep it a secret, sayid put a gun on him
but he wouldnt try to break it open before if he was with ethan and desmond, they'd just open it for him

[Burned_Alive]

I think Man of Faith actually refers to Desmond, whilst Man of Science is Jack, i could be wrong though.

[lr1]

Locke didn't look to 'scared' with that gun pointed at him. He kept telling Jack it was okay. He just looked too calm.

[The Czar]

cause he didnt want to get shot lol

[AlexanderDelarge]

Locke = man of faith, IMO.

[Burned_Alive]

During any other episode i would've thought that, but going on this episode im thinking along the lines of Jack saying it was impossible for Sarah to walk, whilst Desmond was talking about believing in miracles

[AlexanderDelarge]

Very true. Maybe it should've been titled "Men of Faith."

[elleesa]

I wouldn't want Locke as a leader. Nor would I want to be Locke's leader. He does what he wants, flaunts authority and puts people who depend on him in danger for his own gain.

Did you notice he did the exact same thing to Kate as he did to Boone. He made her go down the hatch because she was smaller and lighter. He made her take the consequences if something bad happened.

[LOSTSOL]

Locke was very calm, because i think this was the plan...Locke spent time hunting and gathering with Ethan - they bonded. Also in S1 when Locke saw the light out of the hatch, who is to say if Desmondes (I spell it like that because of my theory that his name means "of the worlds" in french) didnt appear to locke and send him a sign to come on down. We see Locke seeing the light, but we dont see what happened afterward. it would be cool if JJ & co. flash back to Locke seeing the light and Desmondes coming up to the glass to give him a message. The island gave Locke his legs, perhaps Desmondes or Ethan threatened to take that away if he didnt cooperate with them

[jedi517]

I wouldn't want Locke as a leader. Nor would I want to be Locke's leader. He does what he wants, flaunts authority and puts people who depend on him in danger for his own gain.

Did you notice he did the exact same thing to Kate as he did to Boone. He made her go down the hatch because she was smaller and lighter. He made her take the consequences if something bad happened.
Maybe Locke is from the "Island." That would explain why he has regained the abilities he had lost earlier in life.

[Lostinlife3]

Locke is Locke he's a man of faith, he's been through enough with his father and kidneys etc, the last thing he would want to do is hurt someone after all that.

Locke was calm ecause well.....he's Locke! lol he's wise, calm, that's his personality and only gets mad when people tell him what he can and cant do.

my opinion anyway

i still think him gaining his legs back coulda been a coincidence (tho i dont believe in them)
i once heard that a woman had been parazylized and was taking a bath during a thunderstorn, was shocked and came out walking...

[leeva_aguilera]

I don't think Locke wants off the island, due to the fact that he'll probably be in a wheelchair again.

[Ellen]

That's the best theory I've ever read. Seriously. :p

No, Locke can't be working with Ethan. He's never been to the island before. If they were working together, and Ethan lived in the hatch with Desmond, why would Locke lead everyone to it? You'd think he would want to keep it a secret.

I think that was just bad luck. Locke wanted to open the hatch himself and keep it a secret, but he couldn't because of Boone. Remember in the episode when he first "finds" the hatch? Boone was with him then. They were in the middle of the jungle looking for Claire in the dark when it happened. Remember when Boone said "You can't still be following the trail" to Locke? It's true. It was dark and it was raining, so there was no way that he could still know where he was going. My guess is that Locke suspected that Boone would leave him alone (which he tried but failed to convince him to do) and he would start trying to find the hatch then. Right?

[LOSTSOL]

Locke is Locke he's a man of faith, he's been through enough with his father and kidneys etc, the last thing he would want to do is hurt someone after all that.

On the contrary. it's payback time. He went through enough and now will go to any lengths to keep his functioning legs. And who is to say anyone is going to get "hurt"??? I too doubt that Locke would hurt anyone, but simply hand them over to someone who may, maybe being tricked or coerced into doing so...

[leeva_aguilera]

Locke is Locke he's a man of faith, he's been through enough with his father and kidneys etc, the last thing he would want to do is hurt someone after all that.

That's every more reason for anyone who's been f^cked with before to wanna hurt someone else. I mean after all Locke's been through, his dad stole his Kidneys and he could very well be traumitized from it all and could turn, well psychotic. Again, just a theory...

[Sunshine]

I wouldn't want Locke as a leader. Nor would I want to be Locke's leader. He does what he wants, flaunts authority and puts people who depend on him in danger for his own gain.

Did you notice he did the exact same thing to Kate as he did to Boone. He made her go down the hatch because she was smaller and lighter. He made her take the consequences if something bad happened.
It looked like he wan in on it! He did seem very calm when he had that gun to his head...

[leeva_aguilera]

If Locke is in on it, what if, just what if the other bunk belonged to him. OMG, i'm pathetically getting to into this.

[TheCrimsonKing]

How can Locke be in on it? You saw his back story. He was on the plane with everyone else, a total chance meeting. I agree, he seems fishy, he definately has his own agenda but then even in his past he had one. Chances are, Locke's character is stand-offish because people have always been holding him down, even his own body was in on the conspiracy. Now he has a chance to prove his worth. He'll do what he deems necessary to do that. I think he's a little nuts but I don't think he's a conspirator.

[Lostinlife3]

but he's Locke!!! hes always calm lol! how many people do you know who sit and rock back and forth in the rain after surviving a horrible plane crash??

(and dont say shannon...LOL she was just conceited lol)

[Ellen]

If Locke is in on it, what if, just what if the other bunk belonged to him. OMG, i'm pathetically getting to into this.

Ooh, good one!

How can Locke be in on it? You saw his back story. He was on the plane with everyone else, a total chance meeting.

Maybe Locke caused the plane crash! Hmm...

[Raven O'Reilly]

Before you cry about it, I merged 2 of the major Locke threads by LOSTSOL and redemption. All Locke discussion stays in here to stop the duplicate threads.

[anomaly]

Is there any chance this could be Locke? Kinda looks like him to me..

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/534/lockev13bt.jpg

[Lostinlife3]

doesn't look anything like him to me

[LUKEYP]

Impossible...

or is it

[Lostinlife3]

man nothing on this island is impossible lol!

[SlayerVixen]

I actually read in another thread that guy in the ER when Sara comes in is Shannon's father. Yup JJ and Co sure know how to get you thinking. But Locke some weeks i LOVE him other weeks i'm totally unsure of him...all i know is he's a great character, very mysterious and played brilliantly by TOQ

[Frink]

Well if Locke knows well enough about the human mind and military stuff, then he knows that staying calm in a hostage situation is the best thing you can do. If you do not show fear, and stay calm then you are not going to get more threats. Because the fear is what builds up more threats.

[Lostinlife3]

totally Locke is an awesome character and awesome sig Slayer lol!

[LOSTSOL]

How can Locke be in on it? You saw his back story. He was on the plane with everyone else, a total chance meeting. I agree, he seems fishy, he definately has his own agenda but then even in his past he had one.

Whatever his back-story is, is. He's had an unfair life, from what we've seen. He was on the plane like everyone else, BUT, he was crippled. We he crashed, and he was no longer disabled. And, if he was given an ultimatum by Desmond to 'give us these people or never walk again', which is what I believe may have happened, I think he'd sell them out. Granted, he would not sell them out if he knew that they would be killed or badly hurt. Remember, Locke has lied in the past to get what he wanted...he misrepresented himself to the walkabout people. Also, he's dilusional, he wanted that phone operator, whom he paid to talk to, and whom he had never met, to go to Australia on the walkabout with him. And never forget, he was coerced into giving up his kidney, which shows 1) that he's coercable (gullable) to a degree, and 2) that he's willing to give up a lot (kidney, relationships with the other survivors) if he believed in something.

[Lostinlife3]

well i mean he gave up his kidney cause he thought he was helping his dad....his dad put up a good front, thats understandable why he was fooled, a lot of people woulda been

he didnt misrepresent himself to the people at the Walkabout he knew they would say no, he probably figured once he was there and ready to board they would have a harder time sending him away

And it he was given an ultimatium by Desmond...why Locke? why not Jack? Jack certainly appears to be the leader of everyone, and the one they would trust the most

[SlayerVixen]

So many questions...there are too many!! This show seriously has me up thinking to the wee small hours!! :confused:

[easilyjaded]

I just want to say one thing that is totally off-topic: leeva, I love your Sun avatar. So pretty! :D

[Fost&Lound]

Why would Locke waste so much time trying different things to open the hatch?

Why would Locke (while alone) look so shocked and puzzled about the security system while he was in the jungle?

Locke is only on the plane because they wouldnt let him on the Walkabout, its not like he planned to be on there. If he had gone on the Walkabout, he would not have been on this flight.

Maybe Desmond threw Ethan out of the hatch and he was conspiring with Locke to get back in. Who knows what Ethan could have told him was in there, and that may have driven his interest even after Ethan was killed.

[Raven O'Reilly]

It amazes me how people are determined to make Locke a villain.

[SlayerVixen]

Me too, i think he's more of an anti-hero than a villian, he's been through so much in his life people should give the guy a break!! Hope this sig size is okay for you :)

[Lostinlife3]

It amazes me how people are determined to make Locke a villain.

i know...it seems like your either totally with him or totally against him!

im glad to be with him hes one of my fav characters!

[Raven O'Reilly]

I'm downloading this episode because I didn't get to see it last night, sadly. I was working. :(

I usually write a review about my thoughts and theories about major episodes like this one. I also like to debate the Locke issue. I defend him pretty much, no matter what, and have done so from the beginning. lol :)

[Lostinlife3]

i used to think he was a bit pyscho....never in league with Ethan though....ive always thought him good from the start....i like to debate my friend about him a lot cause she hates him...hes another character that makes the show more interesting to watch!

[150cc]

Locke is a good man.

I think we will all find out that Desmond and the "Others" are all good people too.

They're just misguided in their attempts to be good and to survive.

It is the corporation that is bad.

[COMRADPOPLIN]

locke is a loose cannon that will play some part in a fatel incident in the group im sure of it he is to gung ho

[Lostinlife3]

locke is a loose cannon that will play some part in a fatel incident in the group im sure of it he is to gung ho

whats does being gung ho have to do with anything? because he believes everything happens for a reason? I believe everything happens for a reason...does that mean im gonna lead to a fatal incident?
Locke is just open-minded and caring....he's not all about science

[SlayerVixen]

whats does being gung ho have to do with anything? because he believes everything happens for a reason? I believe everything happens for a reason...does that mean im gonna lead to a fatal incident?
Locke is just open-minded and caring....he's not all about science

WORD to that! Locke is a good man and i truly believe that.

[jigsawyer]

Of course Locke let Kate down, what else? She wouldn't have been strong enough to lower Locke down there. And for the plane - he had serious problems with his legs. He wasn't acting on this one, and - it was him who told Boone to get the heck outta there.

It was Boone's unstoppable interest in knowing more that killed him, not Locke's intent.

[Raven O'Reilly]

*Claps.* Exactly, jigsawyer.

[jessepea]

in the www.oceanicflight815.com page, the barcode scripted page definitely makes locke sound like a bad guy to me...

[Lostinlife3]

ah that website is too confusing.....they make you click all these little things and dots to get what you want...

Locke is not a bad guy

[Raven O'Reilly]

in the www.oceanicflight815.com page, the barcode scripted page definitely makes locke sound like a bad guy to me...

Next thing you know people are gonna say Locke's a vampire.

[Lostinlife3]

I Vant to Blow Open the Vatch!!!!!!!!
*ahem.....* anyway....

[ILoveLost]

[QUOTE=Mojave]Men of Science and Men of Faith balance each other out. You need them both.[QUOTE]

like yin and yang

[robweber2]

anyone else think it's possible that "Man of Science" and "Man of Faith" could both refer to Jack? i mean, there's the obvious Locke connection, but Jack has a sort of transformation throughout the episode from a realist, scientific man (telling his patients the truth, no matter how painful) to a more hope-driven man (telling the survivors that they'll be okay, despite the odds). and let's face it, you can't get more hope-based than "faith."

[Raven O'Reilly]

If that's true, then he went back to being a man of science at present.

[g35er]

If that's true, then he went back to being a man of science at present.

I'm glad they did that. If they want their character to change, do it over a period of time and build up to it. An inferior show would have transformed him to a "believer" through his epiphany. When Jack was making his faith speech to the islanders, it seemed that they might have rushed to change his character too fast, but they went back to the man of science.

Also, man of faith could also be referring to Desmond.

[sallystar]

Hey, I'm a new poster/member. I've been lurking since last season. I am so glad I found this thread because I've had intense feelings about Locke ever since last year.I don't believe that he is evil, but Locke is playing god. I think that he has definitely been in the hatch before, and that he sacrificed Boone to the island to get something back. When he screamed at the hatch after Boone died, something seemed off to me, like he was speaking with a person/people down there. I think that he knows the "others" and what they are up to, etc... :o I think that he has been to the island before the plane crash.

[Locke For Mayor]

There was another thread about how Christian beleivers loved this show. I'm sortof one of them. I beleive in God, I went to church every Sunday for nearly twenty years. I have to say that there have been lots of times in my life when I felt like Locke that night, banging on this immovable object, wondering why everything has happened and gone so horribly wrong. He was yelling at the island, becasue it's almost like a friend to him, or he thought it was.

[mipac]

Why would Locke waste so much time trying different things to open the hatch?

Why would Locke (while alone) look so shocked and puzzled about the security system while he was in the jungle?

Locke is only on the plane because they wouldnt let him on the Walkabout, its not like he planned to be on there. If he had gone on the Walkabout, he would not have been on this flight.

Maybe Locke has been infected with whatever is being quarantined and has sugmitted himself to the island

[COMRADPOPLIN]

locke doesnt seem to be to concernd with other peoples safty look at when he tied boon up in the forest and left him how could he know nothing would happen to him the place is full of poler bears for god sake.
i admit at first he was an allright kinda guy but now he only thinks about his gain form his actions look at the new series when he was lowering kate down she screams again and again so what does he do ,keeps lowering her down that really sounds like a man who cares.
the whole thing about him being able to lift kate out whent out the window the minute he ignored her screams. his faith will get people killed because he doesnt listen to people

[robweber2]

his faith will get people killed because he doesnt listen to people
sounds like the last 2000 years of history to me...

[JohnLocke60]

Jack is the bad one!

[COMRADPOPLIN]

locke is a man of faith there is no denying that but his faith is a blind faith and that is very very dangerous

[xxclachaxx]

Maybe Locke WAS completely innocent when he was on the plane and on the island, but when he saw the "monster", which I will assume isn't a monster at all but some type of machine, things were explained to him and now he knows the island. I don't really think Desmond's a bad guy either. If quarantine is on the INSIDE of the door, then that means he's trying to keep himself from getting sick from whatever's outside. I do believe that Locke knows a lot more then he's leading on and I think that Desmond isn't supposed to be the bad guy.

Oh, and just bringing a subject from the other thread about Locke and the shoes being left out. Might be completely off and random, but we take our shoes off at my house. It's a tradition and it just means hospitality. It shows respect to the owner of the house so that whatever's on the shoes won't mess up the house. Maybe the shoes being off is a sign of hospitality?

[Raven O'Reilly]

*Sigh* Sorry guys, you aren't saying anything new that the rest of us Locke fans can't counter with or explain.

[anomaly]

Surely the quarantine is referring to inside the hatch..that's where the disease is. Otherwise he wouldn't be injecting himself every day! He's probably injecting an antivirus...or something like that...

Rousseau's team may have got ill by going on in the hatch...or something like that.

Just a random guess :)

[elleesa]

I think Locke is so committed to the island being good that he's blinded to its dangers. And given his ability to walk after 4 years of paralysis, I can kind of see where he's coming from.

When something bad happens, even to people who are helping him, Locke doesn't seem to understand it. He had this reaction when he thought he was losing the use of his legs in Deux Ex Machina. He seemed to have the same reaction when Kate fell down the hatch.

He has faith, but it's an increasingly obsessive one which can be dangerous.

[Raven O'Reilly]

I've said the blind faith thing before to. You can't fault the guy for it though.

[Lostinlife3]

everyone's saying he has faith yet its a blind one....

i mean...at least the guy even HAS faith

[Nozoki]

Surely the quarantine is referring to inside the hatch..that's where the disease is. Otherwise he wouldn't be injecting himself every day! :)

Usually when someone is in quarantine, you would put the quarantine sign on the outside to keep people from entering. The sign was on the inside of the hatch door, therefore warning the occupants of the hatch that the island is in quarantine.
And as for Locke, I think he's obsessed with finding the secrets of the island, no matter what. He found the hatch by accident and from that moment on thought about nothing else but how to get in. He doesn't want to leave the island because he believes that the island gave him his legs back. And he really has nothing waiting for him back home.

[Lostinlife3]

yea we've already established he was either injecting steroids into himself or some kind of medication to prevent him from getting whatever was outside the island

[rzaleski]

My wife just noticed something interesting last night. Did anybody notice that Locke wasn't wearing shoes when he was in the hatch (when Desmond had the gun to his head)?

When Jack went down into the hatch, he saw a pair of shoes near the enterance. Maybe they were Locke's!

I think Locke took them off so he wouldn't make a lot of noise (while looking for Kate). Any other ideas?

Ryan

[DogD]

Why would Locke waste so much time trying different things to open the hatch?

Why would Locke (while alone) look so shocked and puzzled about the security system while he was in the jungle?

Locke is only on the plane because they wouldnt let him on the Walkabout, its not like he planned to be on there. If he had gone on the Walkabout, he would not have been on this flight.

If Locke wasn't on the plane he would not be on his Walkabout now.

[Infinite Force]

The shoes were most definetly Kate's. They are identical to those to wore many times, the ones she took from a dead body way back in S1E02, when she needed to boots to go into the jungle with Sayid & co.

[LOSTSOL]

The shoes were most definetly Kate's. They are identical to those to wore many times, the ones she took from a dead body way back in S1E02, when she needed to boots to go into the jungle with Sayid & co.

wow...great catch
I totally forgot about the shoes just sitting there, and they were thrown or just there, they were placed nicely side by side...

And for the record, i dont believe Locke is a villain. I think he is a victim of his life's circumstances. He is good inside. But if it means giving up his legs, he wont do that very easily, in fact he will go to great lengths not to, even if it means sacrifice.

[Gills345x]

There has been some discussion about Locke being bad or not being bad. He may not be bad, but misguided in working with Desmond/Ethan (Maybe Others?). I you go back to Walkabout , Locke really doesnt seem all confident and "knowing" until after his first run in with the monster. He looks all nervous but later returns with the Boar, no worse for wear. I think that the reason Locke is walking on the island is that Desmond or Ethan injected him with the "serum" we see Desmond injecting. It obviously gives you some kind of strength or enhanced abilities, just look at Ethan's handy butt kicking of Jack the first time they meet. I think it was injected in Locke after the crash before he woke up so that he could walk. Then, his first run in with the "monster" reveals to him (through Desmond maybe talking through it) that the "island" is responsible for Locke walking. Then, from then on, it seems Locke is on some kind of "mission" to keep the secrets of the island intact. Remember, he even mentions seeing the "eye" of the island. This could be the same kind of "lense" Desmond uses to see Jack and Locke when they blow the hatch and somehow he communicated through it to Locke when Locke runs across him. Thus, he did not board the plane with bad intentions, but merely was "let in" on what was going on and how he was able to walk. Of course he would want to protect whatever gave him his new found ability. And, here is something to chew on, maybe Desmond is not evil at all. Maybe he is a good guy and is trying to stop the "others" who obviously are pretty bad.

What do you guys think?

[Gills345x]

Wouldn't that explain why he is not worried about going down in the hole in Exodus, when he tells Jack to "let me go, I'll be ok". He knew what was down there.

[Raven O'Reilly]

Edit if you have more to say. Don't double post, please.

And.... are you saying that Desmond or Ethan came out of nowhere with the serum to inject Locke JUST AFTER the plane crashed so he could walk again? Unlikely.

[WhirledPeas]

Maybe Locke is "infected." He's the only one who "looked into the eye" of the island, and said "it was beautiful." Danielle said that the other members of her team got infected when they went to the Black Rock. Locke has been all over the island, so who's to say he wasn't at the Black Rock before everyone else. Or maybe he was infected when the plane first crashed, and that's why he can walk again, and can see and understand stuff the other survivors can't. If he is infected, it could explain his dual personality kind of behavior.

[theothers]

"Danielle said that the other members of her team got infected when they went to the Black Rock. Locke has been all over the island, so who's to say he wasn't at the Black Rock before everyone else."

totally agree. and when rousseau left the dynamite group didnt locke say "i can lead us back" how could he so confidently say that if he didnt know that part of the island really well? and throughout the whole season hes been splitting the group up into sides...i say the guy's seriously messed up and if i was LOST id totally be sideing with Jack over locke...heck yeah...

(btw my quote box thing isnt working right now...thats the reason for the "")

[Lostinlife3]

but if Locke had been infected would EVERYONE espcially like Jack with him searching for his dad, Kate, Sayid, Charlie from runnign through the jungle trying to hook up the radio....everyone would be infected

[robweber2]

Surely the quarantine is referring to inside the hatch..that's where the disease is. Otherwise he wouldn't be injecting himself every day! He's probably injecting an antivirus...or something like that...

Rousseau's team may have got ill by going on in the hatch...or something like that.

Just a random guess :)
if i remember correctly, Rousseau didn't seem to know anything about the hatch when they mentioned it to her. but that doesn't mean her team didn't.

[irishsnake]

There has been some discussion about Locke being bad or not being bad. He may not be bad, but misguided in working with Desmond/Ethan (Maybe Others?). I you go back to Walkabout , Locke really doesnt seem all confident and "knowing" until after his first run in with the monster. He looks all nervous but later returns with the Boar, no worse for wear. I think that the reason Locke is walking on the island is that Desmond or Ethan injected him with the "serum" we see Desmond injecting. It obviously gives you some kind of strength or enhanced abilities, just look at Ethan's handy butt kicking of Jack the first time they meet. I think it was injected in Locke after the crash before he woke up so that he could walk. Then, his first run in with the "monster" reveals to him (through Desmond maybe talking through it) that the "island" is responsible for Locke walking. Then, from then on, it seems Locke is on some kind of "mission" to keep the secrets of the island intact. Remember, he even mentions seeing the "eye" of the island. This could be the same kind of "lense" Desmond uses to see Jack and Locke when they blow the hatch and somehow he communicated through it to Locke when Locke runs across him. Thus, he did not board the plane with bad intentions, but merely was "let in" on what was going on and how he was able to walk. Of course he would want to protect whatever gave him his new found ability. And, here is something to chew on, maybe Desmond is not evil at all. Maybe he is a good guy and is trying to stop the "others" who obviously are pretty bad.

What do you guys think?

i think the idea that Locke was injected with Serum right after the crash is weak....i think that the Island operates under different rules than the rest of the world. i think we will find out what those rules are in future episodes. Why is Locke suddenly able to walk..i agree it has something to do with the island and he realizes this and those is almost alone among the survivors in being happy to be on the island...

Locke could be 'infected' though...the most important change was after he was first grabbed by the sercurity system...he became pasionate about being on the island so he knows something and therefore is mostly unafraid..except for that one time when he was grabbed as he said in the season two premiere by "the smoke". He did have fear on his face then.

As for leading people back from the black rock..well in earlier episodes we are shown that Locke is an expert tracker..he would have no problem finding or remembering the trail the group took to the black rock...by the way Kate also is an excellent tracker....

...now one could argue i suppose that they are not they just know the island because they are in cahoots with the 'others' or possibly Desmond...i guess we will eventually know...please remember though some other strange event just after the crash. Jack wakes up amongst the bamboo...why was he there and not strewn on the beach with the others. i suppose he could have just fallen there... :)

[galligirl]

Did anyone see Locke's face change when he waved the fire in front of it?? I think he is one of the one's Danielle warned about who has "changed". I think he's changed for the bad now. UGH.

[sallystar]

I want to clarify that I am a huge Locke fan. I happen to think, though, that he knows a TON more than he lets on about the island. I think that he has been there before, knows Desmond/the Others. I think that his "walkabout" trip had something to do with Desmond(who was going to "race around the world") I think that on the island, he is leading and making choices for the greater good of all of the lostaways.

[Raven O'Reilly]

Bleh. You guys are compelling me to post, as the priestess of the Temple of Locke. :p

1. Of course Locke appears to know more about what's going on than anything else. I think after a full season of observing his behavior, seeing his flashbacks, and listening to what he says, we know that he is very intuitive and calm. He relies on his senses, not just cold hard fact in front of him.

2. I don't think his walkabout had anything to do with Desmond. Walkabouts are for spiritual enlightenment, physical endurance... Locke wanted to make something of his life, prove to everyone but especially to himself that he isn't bound to his chair.

3. I think Locke has been eager to stay on the island and learn more about it the day they crash landed there - when he discovered he could walk again. Granted, his eagerness has appeared to become more obsessive, even wreckless, but I don't see much of a change in his motivation that would indicate he's been "infected" just because he visited the Black Rock.

[Razor]

I imagine it would be exhilerating to be Locke. To miraculously survive a plane crash, find himself once again ambulatory (2nd miracle?), and a chance to fulfill what he believes is his destiny. To find a purpose, in what he believes to be some far greater scheme, after living a mundane life at the box company (not to mention the rest of his crappy life), IMO would lead one to believe that all that has transpired before has been in preparation for what is happening now. He must feel reborn.

[jigsawyer]

Good point, freckles. (raven)

I think, Locke sees this as his destiny, a god given new beginning. He's seemingly the only one who is not afraid of anything. Instead of having thoughts like "when will they rescue us" or "will I ever see my family again" Locke is pleased with his new surrounding. There's nothing worth to return to, no friends, no family, no woman, no career, and he already gave up the hope of ever getting these values. It was just not his fate.

The island provides him with enough supplies to survive, so he's open to explore his new surrounding. A place magic and mysterious, satisfying but dangerous too. For most of the people, their new place is hell, but for Locke, his home was.

Locke has proved more than once that he's a kind person with a huge heart, but he doesn't like the community as a whole. It was people like them who laughed about his unusual thoughts, about his interest in getting more out of life than just working, living, sex, repeat.

I'm pretty sure that he wishes everyone good luck to find a way back home to their beloved families, but when the time comes, Locke won't leave the island.

Does he have anything to do with Desmond? Likely. Does he know more about the mysteries than we do? Likely. Is he an active part of a conspiracy, or just plain evil? I bet my frickin' sunglasses on this; he's not, sweetheart.

[lovinglost27]

Thank you, Raven!!!
Some of this hating on Locke is so sad...And there are too many posts to reply to to actually quote them all.

Yes, Locke is a little creepy and hard to understand. But seriously, sooo many things would not fit with what we have seen so far if we go with the assumption that Locke has been "in on it" the whole time. And many of the supporting arguments used are completely overlooking thngs that could be said in defense of him. And other things used as "proof" of his shiftiness are interpreted differently by different people. WHy couldn't he have built the cradle for Claire out of kindness? Why did it seem like he was afraid of her memory, when he said, "maybe I can help?" Why would he want to help if he had been "in on it"?

Locke knows a lot of things, yes, but I don't think he had the slightest clue what was in there. And just because he looked calm with a gun pointed to his head...hasn't he always looked relatively calm with a gun aimed at him, whether it be Shannon pointing it or Sayid?

I just wish I didn't have to work so hard to defend Locke...ALL of the characters on this island are flawed and have their own hidden motives. So why hate on Locke???

[LostPack]

I'm not really sure how we can really define good vs bad. Is good being thought of as those who follow Jack? And bad is then not following Jack? Or is good being the man of science and bad being the man of faith - or vice versa?
Now I probably should say that I don't have a personal favorite character per se - I love this show. And therefore each and every character in the show is an integral part in one way or another. Each scene, everything that happens is in some way an important clue to the overall picture. The actors who portray the characters are secondary - whether or not I love Mathew Fox, the actor, has no bearing on whether or not I like or dislike Jack. The same holds true for the rest of the cast. While I like some characters more than others, I feel they all matter. So far, Locke has shown that he is independent. He doesn't have the need for someone to lead him. He doesn't interfere with Jack - who has taken on the role as leader - because he is the person the group wants as their leader. Locke does his own thing - this is his walkabout. He is finding all the things he wanted. He has never forced anyone to join him. I'd say there were times he did encourange Boone - but never did he command him. Locke's journey is based on spirituality and faith. As for Jack - I think that he too has found what he was looking for - and that I think, is a balance between science and faith. Once we know what happened to Sarah - I think we'll have a better idea of what Jack's about. From flashbacks, we see that Jack didn't think of himself as a leader. It seems that his life was filled with criticism - from his parents. I just don't see either as being good or bad or for that matter pure faith or pure science. Locke is more independent from the group - he doesn't need them and he has a lot of faith in himself. Jack is needed by the group, but Locke really doesn't need Jack. I think the only thing Jack needs is some faith - mostly in himself.
One thing I will say is that I gave Locke a lot of credit at the hatch before they went down. When Jack basically told him he shouldn't go down and they had to return to camp - I know that if it had been me, I'd have cursed Jack out so badly that his head would have spun around 15 times. I knew that Locke had every intention of returning as soon as he could get whatever supplies he needed - I'd have done the same.

[Lostinlife3]

You can sum up Locke in one word: Faith

He has the faith no one else on this island has. Spending 4 yours in a wheelchair, and now being able to walk has probably had a MAJOR impact on his life. He doesn't take things for granted anymore and appreciates the smaller things.

Locke is a natural leader. He's wise, strong, courageous and more attune to the world around him then anyone else on this island.

He knows of the islands mysteries....why? Because it seems like he was the only one willing to believe the island even HAD mysteries, and instead of running away and screaming bloody murder at the sight of a tree moving, he watched, was intrigued, and in return found out more. Something any sensible person would have done. Try to find out more. Yet he was the ONLY ONE willing to listen and put aside all logical explanations. Then when he DOES learn things, everyone says he's weird....

A lot of people criticize him because he's so freaky and knows so much that he's not telling. Who said he's not going to tell? Knowing Locke...more than likely he's just looking for the opportune moment...

[Raven O'Reilly]

Thanks!

Thinking on a slightly bigger picture here... Remember everything that Locke has done for the other people in the group. The theme that I've been promoting and I think most people agree that everyone on the island has some kind of burden (or whatever you want to call it) that needs to be addressed and shed. You have Charlie's drug addiction, Boone's obsession with Shannon, the lack of communication between Sun and Jin, the estrangement of father and son with Michael and Walt, Sawyer's past that became his present... I could keep going on. These are all things that people need to be aware that they have a second chance - just like Locke has a second chance of walking. Locke realizes this simply because he's willing to believe, especially after being able to freaking walk, so he has made an effort to guide some of the other survivors to realize their second chance to.

It annoys me when people use the fact that Locke kept his miracle a secret. Would you tell a bunch of strangers that before you got on the plane you were confined to a wheelchair and now you can walk after not being able to for 4 years? I wouldn't. They'd look at you like you're insane. Locke has no obligation to release this information to anyone either. On top of that, notice Jack's reaction to Hurley when Hurley tells him about the fact he learned about the numbers in a psych ward. All Jack can say at the end is "You were in a psych ward?" He doesn't seem to be so open minded when someone's sanity is called into question, does he? But then, that's Jack being a Man of Science.

Edited to Add after reading Lostinlife3's post:

Exactly! Following that thought... you can't just hand someone a "Certificate of Faith/Enlightement" and suddenly they have faith or have become enlightened. It's a process that must come to them through themselves, like how Locke said to Charlie that he should give up the heroine on his own terms. Make a conscious choice to do it.

[SlayerVixen]

AMEN Raven O Reilly. Locke although slated alot has indeed instigated alot of situations that have had a good outcome. He makes people search inside themselves to find the answer or a resolution.

[Quiet Tempest]

Wait a minute...trust in himself to venture into the unknown? He waited for Kate when he went back to the hatch then dropped her into the unknown.

I like Locke, but I wouldn't trust him. I wouldn't have much faith in Jack either. Matter of fact, I'll take Sun over any of them. She's the only one thus far who has demonstrated any sense. :D

I agree with you there. ;)

[I-am-lost2]

But didn't it seem odd that Locke didn't pick up Kate's flashlight when he went down? because she dropped it and JACK was the one who picked it up when he went down the hatch. Why didn't Locke pick it up? And those shoes WERE Locke's because at the end when Desmond has the gun to Locke's head the camera pans out to show all of Locke and he has no shoes on.

What I'm trying to get at is, didn't it seem like he was almost invited in? Didn't need a flashlight, and obviously, he wasn't dragged or pulled in like Kate because his shoes were laid down neatly.

And remember after that plane that Boone was in fell and he carried him back, at the end of the episode it shows him looking down into the hatch yelling, "I did everything you told me to; so why did you do this to me?!" Then the light came on. What did he mean by that then?

Just something to think about. I'm not trying to say Locke is bad, but more like, who is he?

[Lostinlife3]

he knows more than he's telling (as i said before he's probably waiting for the opportune moment)

i also heard that even though there were shoes sitting there and Locke had no shoes on...people are arguing those are exactly the same shoes Kate wears....the ones she took off the dead guy.

its possible they really were Kate shoes, and Locke's are somewhere else...

maybe Desmond has a Shoe Fetish.....doesn't like people walking into his hatch with shoes on...did anyone notice if Desmond himself was wearing shoes?

[lost/wwe fan]

I read early in this post that Desmond or the island contacted Locke to bring down the plane. Then someone asked why not ask Jack or someone. I think, if this happen, they contacted Locke because they could manulate Locke easiest with his legs. You could as easily manulated Jack or someone. But I don't think this happened. I think the island brought down the plane on it's own. Locke would never do something like that, even for his legs. Locke is a good and awesome guy and he is the only hope that the survivors have.

[Raven O'Reilly]

I don't see how you guys can like jump to the conclusion that Locke was invited in because his shoes were off and he didn't pick up the flashlight... Then say because he was invited in he *must* be in league with Desmond.

Maybe he got to the bottom but Desmond was waiting to take him captive as well? Locke would have done as the guy told him to because he would want to know what happened to Kate. Jack gets furious as we see in the end of this episode, but Locke has 90% of the time been calm and cool about it. Then there's always the chance that Locke DID struggle or try something, but Desmond had the upper hand and then put the shoes there himself.

Which would you rather see as a crisis negotiator in a situation where men have committed an armed robbery and are now holding hostages? Would you see Locke or Jack doing the job better? Personally, I think it automatically goes to Locke. I'm not dissing on Jack, but he gets overemotional in these kinds of situations. He holds his own in the hospital, but that's his territory and he's more at home there because everything there is familiar to him. A hospital is defined with rules and it's predictable in that people know what to do with certain things happen. Locke's territory is the outdoors, which is totally unfamiliar to Jack. Naturally, Locke would know what to do and stay cool in survival situations in nature moreso than Jack.

[lost/wwe fan]

Well said Raven O'Reilly. I competely agree with what you just said.

[rufus77]

I am going to have to disagree with you there Jack handles situations almost perfectly a lot of times like after the crash. Locke I do think was scared at first. Because there is an enclosed psycopath. But honestly All roads lead here. I think this is going to be a shock even Locke admits that he is acting crazy or at least appears to be The shoes are interesting.

Where is kate and why is she yelling unless she is in trouble

[Raven O'Reilly]

I'm not saying Jack is bad at it. It doesn't strike me as his element. He handled the crisis situations pretty well, but he still gets very emotional. Look how he was pushing himself to get Claire back to the point of exhaustion and then the same with trying to save Boone. And we see the same thing in the flashback with Sarah and her operation. I'm not saying these are bad things, he's very determined and that determination brought Charlie back to life. I'm just saying that because Locke acts differently than Jack doesn't mean that Locke's the bad guy or there's something wrong with him, he must be out to get everyone, yada yada yada.

Also don't think there is that much of a psychopath in Locke either. He shows some traits that could lead him down that path, but then who doesn't? All of them are in a survival situation and we all saw what happened in Lord of the Flies.

[rufus77]

Yeah we will see but Desmond is not a cool guy

[Raven O'Reilly]

Hmmm... everything we've seen of him at the end and the fact that he's in the hatch with those numbers on it points to the thought that he isn't a cool guy.

But then who knows?

I've been pondering on the whole idea of Man of Science vs Man of Faith and what keeps coming back to me is when Jack looked at Hurley after Hurley finished telling him everything about the numbers and said "You were in a psych ward?" And then empahsizes that they're just numbers.

Pulling yourself away from the situation, what if they are just numbers? This changes a lot of things, I'd think.

[lotrcolts]

just another note on locke...i forget what episode it was but a bunch of hte survivors were fighting on the beach and Locke came up and shouted something like (i dont remember it exactly so correct me if i'm wrong), "we aren't the only people on this island and we all know it, maybe we should stop worrying about us and start worrying about them" and then he walked away. If he was in on "it" it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense taht he would say this.

[lost/wwe fan]

I don't know where people get the idea that Locke is in on it. I was too focused on getting into the hatch to be in on it.

[Frink]

I don't know where people get the idea that Locke is in on it. I was too focused on getting into the hatch to be in on it.

I agree, I think all posts should be delted because of this. Why the hell are there flashbacks? Yeah I am pretty sure Walkabout was nothing the creators wanted to make.

[Lostinlife3]

Locke is not in on it, end of discussion.

[Jack=Savior]

I think Locke has been drinking too much crazy juice lol j/k. I loved Locke from the beginning, but once he started putting people in danger for his so called "destiny" he became one of my least favorite. He became obsessed with the hatch, and was willing to sacrifice as many people as it took, or as many people as "the island demanded". He didn't even care about the rest of the group he just wanted to get in the hatch.

[Quiet Tempest]

I think Locke has been drinking too much crazy juice lol j/k. I loved Locke from the beginning, but once he started putting people in danger for his so called "destiny" he became one of my least favorite. He became obsessed with the hatch, and was willing to sacrifice as many people as it took, or as many people as "the island demanded". He didn't even care about the rest of the group he just wanted to get in the hatch.

My thoughts, exactly. :)

[Frink]

So Locke didn't care about Charlies drug addiction, Claire (Only one going to her in Eathans hunt and building her a crib when no one else was doing anything about the baby!), Boone (helping him get over his sister), Shannon (pushing her to find comfort and a new life with Sayid), Sawyer (keeping his mind on the right track with the boar chasing), Michael (helping him bond with Walt), Walt (giving him strength that he is not useless, same with Boone).

So Locke doesn't care about anyone?

Please that's a joke!

[Jack=Savior]

So Locke didn't care about Charlies drug addiction, Claire (Only one going to her in Eathans hunt and building her a crib when no one else was doing anything about the baby!), Boone (helping him get over his sister), Shannon (pushing her to find comfort and a new life with Sayid), Sawyer (keeping his mind on the right track with the boar chasing), Michael (helping him bond with Walt), Walt (giving him strength that he is not useless, same with Boone).

So Locke doesn't care about anyone?

Please that's a joke!
I never said Locke didn't care, in fact that's why I loved him in the beginning. All those reasons you listed are why I liked his character so much. Look how he changed once he found the hatch, not hunting boar anymore, getting Boone to believe the hatch was "their" destiny. Almost blowing up Hurley just to open the hatch, why can't they bring the old Locke back? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/Elite17/sad2.gif

[mipac]

ill tell ya whats weird, when Jack was promising everyone that they were gonna stick together and survive to the morning, it was then that Locke came over and announced that he was going down the hatch. Later, when Kate arrives, Locke tells her he was waiting for her (almost as if it is necessary for her to go down the hatch), thus drawing both Kate and Jack down into the Hatch with him. I dont think Locke had to traps through the group with his wire making a big fuss unless he had a reason for Kate to follow him (thus bringing Jack down the hatch too, two of the major support legs of the survivors are now down the hatch). I think its pretty good to say he planned for eveything that followed to happen.

[Noetic]

So Locke didn't care about Charlies drug addiction, Claire (Only one going to her in Eathans hunt and building her a crib when no one else was doing anything about the baby!), Boone (helping him get over his sister), Shannon (pushing her to find comfort and a new life with Sayid), Sawyer (keeping his mind on the right track with the boar chasing), Michael (helping him bond with Walt), Walt (giving him strength that he is not useless, same with Boone).

So Locke doesn't care about anyone?

Please that's a joke!
Well, it's not that he doesn't care, more that there are times where he cares more about the island, the fact that he can walk again, and trying to get into the hatch, than he cares about people.

[*Pauly*]

Why should he have to care? And you can't deny that he has shown acts of kindness maybe he doesn't have this overwhelming sense of morality like Jack does but I see that as a weakness.

[Noetic]

Why should he have to care? And you can't deny that he has shown acts of kindness maybe he doesn't have this overwhelming sense of morality like Jack does but I see that as a weakness.
I agree that permanent need to save everyone can be a weakness... it's just that Locke really seemed obsessed with the hatch, and the island, at times, to a degree where he became callous and dangerous to others. In particular when he sent Boone up on the plane, and then lied to Jack about what happended.

[*Pauly*]

He had no choice I really don't think he was faking his inability to use his legs. He was also very afraid that he was being punished for something and didn't want to let on to Jack about the secrets of the island in case it took it away again. This might seem crazy to you or me but to a guy who has just got the use of his legs back it doesn't seem so crazy.

[Lostinlife3]

I agree that permanent need to save everyone can be a weakness... it's just that Locke really seemed obsessed with the hatch, and the island, at times, to a degree where he became callous and dangerous to others. In particular when he sent Boone up on the plane, and then lied to Jack about what happended.


but he DIDN'T send Boone up into the plane, he asked him, which is what anyone would do if they were in his position. Boone had totally control over what was about to happen...he coulda told Locke "No i don't wanna go up there it looks to dangerous" and Locke probably woulda been like "alright" and they woulda gone up later, once Locke was better, but Boone wanted to go up there, and when he was up there, and Locke saw how shakey the plane had become he yelled for Boone to come back, but he didn't.

He lied to Jack yes, but even if he had told the truth the outcome wouldn't have been different, he was still seriously inured enough to have died.

[Frink]

Plus you guys seem to be forgetting that Locke was yelling "Boone get out" over and over again.

[in_ferior]

locke is not afraid to die and he is not particularly concerned with the others' well-being. why should he be? it's not his job, he's not the doctor. if it were up to jack, everyone would always be in the caves where they couldn't get hurt and where he could look over them. jack has issues. anyways, locke knows something that nobody else knows... this island is special. he "looked into the eye of the island and it was beautiful." it gave him the use of his legs back. he wants to discover why.

on a side note, does anyone else think kate is into S&M? that's why she says "what do I say if I need to stop?" just a thought.. :D

[Noetic]

Plus you guys seem to be forgetting that Locke was yelling "Boone get out" over and over again.
That is true, but he still tried to hide what he'd asked him to do (I mean he could have told them about the plane, or at least Jack, he didn't have to mention the hatch!) even though the fact that he didn't tell Jack what caused Boone's injuries ended up responsible for Boone's death.

I think his protectiveness of the hatch and his feeling of being "chosen" by the island may have clouded his judgement at times. I am not judging him with this, it isn't exactly surprising that his sudden recovery would make him believe he was special or there was something special *for him* about the island. The weird thing is the moment he wiggled his toes, I *knew* that he wasn't 'meant' to be able to walk. I'm not usually good at figuring that kind of stuff out straight away :)

[mipac]

anyone think my idea is decent?

[Jack=Savior]

anyone think my idea is decent?
Yeah the only reason he did that was so Kate would follow him. He could have just waited til no one would notice, but he did it in front of everyone. I remember Locke saying "The others are coming" as a reason to open the hatch. After they opened it he didn't even care about "the others" and if they came or not. He confuses me lol :confused:

[Frink]

if it were up to jack, everyone would always be in the caves where they couldn't get hurt and where he could look over them.

And who was the one that got trapped in a cave in which would have taken his life away if LOCKE didn't tell Charlie about the Moth and giving him hope to be not branded as a useless bloody druggie.

Yeah the only reason he did that was so Kate would follow him. He could have just waited til no one would notice, but he did it in front of everyone. I remember Locke saying "The others are coming" as a reason to open the hatch. After they opened it he didn't even care about "the others" and if they came or not. He confuses me lol :confused:

Well Charlie doesn't even believe there are others so, I would say Charlie doesn't care even more than Locke.

[in_ferior]

Well Charlie doesn't even believe there are others so, I would say Charlie doesn't care even more than Locke.
Charlie is just trying to get some hot Claire action.

[mini_global]

Yeah the only reason he did that was so Kate would follow him. He could have just waited til no one would notice, but he did it in front of everyone. I remember Locke saying "The others are coming" as a reason to open the hatch. After they opened it he didn't even care about "the others" and if they came or not. He confuses me lol :confused:

That's totally what I think too. I hate him that he manipulates people so that people will follow his way. Also, he also manipulate people to avoid the blame when something goes wrong.

[Jack=Savior]

Charlie is just trying to get some hot Claire action.
Either that, or he just had his daily heroin fix :p

[Raven O'Reilly]

Hmmmm... reading over what you guys have been saying, I think there is yet another theme emerging between Locke and Jack: immediate details vs. the big picture

Jack seems more concerned about the immediate situation, which wouldn't be atypical of a doctor. He assesses the current situation, like they're stranded on the beach, so they're going to need fresh water. Then he makes a decision: I'm going to find fresh water. This is a good trait for a leader, someone who can assess the situation quickly and acurately and then make a decision on what to do. We've seen that in his flashback also - the choice between saving Sarah and Adam Rutherford.

Locke, on the other hand, I think he sees the big picture moreso than Jack on a completely differnet level. The obvious "big picture" would be: we're stuck on an island probably forever. I think that's the "big picture" that Jack and many of the other survivors have been functioning on. Locke sees everything differently, which is why he seems to come off creepy and weird to some people, I suppose. He's not seeing their situation as necessarily a bad thing - and that's easy for him because the situation he was headed home to on the plane originally was something he hated and wanted to get away from in the first place. On top of that, he can walk, which I think would drastically change your point of view on the situation if you suddenly found you could walk again after being confined to a chair for 4 years.

So the argument concerning leadership depends on what kind of leadership you're looking for: Jack or Locke? In my opinion, you need both. You have the practical man of science who assesses the situation and gives out direction and then you have the mystical/spiritual/philosophical man of faith who isn't talking about your immediate physical needs, but the needs of something more abstract like your emotions or your spirit... or in the case of the survivors - some kind of negative baggage or weight that they carry around with them, such as Charlie's drug addiction.

[lost/wwe fan]

I think Locke is like Christopher Colombus and Jack is like the king that aided him. Locke wants to explore everything on the island and is willing to risk he life and others. Jack on the other hand doesn't want to sacrifice life but he still wants to know whats going on. This is why I like Locke instead of Jack. Locke is more of a man of action and Jack is a man of patience and survival.

[hypermorphism]

I would value Locke as a friend and human being, but I would not follow him as a leader. A leader must have more concrete reasons for his actions than Locke was willing to give in many situations, and above all a leader of men must value those men above any personal goals.

[realityshowhater]

Value Locke as a friend and a human being? So far his friends have been sent into dangerous planes and sent down mysterious hatches.

[tracee]

Lockes friends had/have reason,intelligence and free will.
And the ability to say no.

[realityshowhater]

But they wouldn't have gone had Locke not told them to.

[tracee]

Again, there is a little something known as free will.
Both Boone and Kate could have taken one look at what Locke asked them to do and said forget it.

[lost_is_a_drug]

Locke is his own individual. If they made him the absolute perfect leader we would probubly be here disscussing how much we hate Locke because hes too perfect.

Accept Locke for who he is, GO LOCKE.

[jigsawyer]

Well, Locke beat Sayid unconscious and tied Boone up, but he never seriously harmed anyone. Boone died because he was too curious, and Kate, well she volunteered kinda - and when she told him to pull her up again, she was seemingly already caught by Desmond. Not even Jack could've pulled her up in that situation.

[lmvannuck]

He was paralyzed.......

[realityshowhater]

yes he was! And........

[NCRider]

Science / Faith; Dark / Light; Yin / Yang; Jack / John.

Aren't John and Jack symbolic opposites of the same person? (The name Jack is a variant of John).

First post. Be gentle.

[@ctu@lLy L0$T]

yes... that is interesting.... you may have a point there

[Boone_lover]

Why would Locke (while alone) look so shocked and puzzled about the security system while he was in the jungle?

I agree with you. The theory that Locke knows something is interesting and the evidenceyou provided is definitely a good back up, but to be honest ithink Locke just has his own type of brainwave and deoesn't think along the same lines as Jack.

Like Passion said, Locke always seems surprised when he is alone aswell. When he sees the security system, and even now in this epiode when he enters the Hatch after Kate. He also looked very surprised when the Hatch lit up for thef irst time.

[Addicted to you]

If Locke was working with Ethan, and Ethan lived in the hatch with Desmond, why would Locke lead everyone to the hatch? You'd think he would want to keep it a secret.


Maybe they want to killed every survivor? :shifty:

[d00by]

I think the title refers to Jack alone.

He was a Man of Science before the girl got better.
He also became a Man of Faith after the girl miraculously got better.

So,JACK bECAME A Man of faith after witnessing the Miracle.

[niksy*]

Locke is better than Jack :)

[drzm]

i agree there is definately something strange about locke, i wouldnt trust him, he's too mysterious. And thats why i like him